Battery size and towing range

[Mike from Portland]

Anyone know what the battery size (kWH) will be for the electric SUV Traveller?

I’m thinking of towing a light weight trailer (Airstream Basecamp Xe) that has a GVWR of 4,500 lbs. The Traveller will have 350 mile range, but I’m guessing it will be capable of towing 4,500 lbs roughly 175-190 miles (on flat terrain, ideal weather, legal highway speeds, no wind, in eco mode) based on performance of other electric trucks already on the market. Do you think that this 190 mile range is overly optimistic?

I’d be curious to know what your range tests have been, towing a Basecamp type trailer, with an ev truck. I assume the Traveller may have a similar towing range.

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[colinnwn]

I think your mileage number is likely for the 100-0% range given all of your caveats. But don't forget that it's better to do 90-10% for battery longevity and environmental variability that's hard to forecast exactly. Also if it's more than one daily recharging that recharge rate dramatically slows down the closer you get to 100% so I would just be sure your mental calculations include that when deciding if you would be happy towing electric. Then of course you may have to unhitch to charge occasionally.

 

[BasilPrometheus]

I think your mileage number is likely for the 100-0% range given all of your caveats. But don't forget that it's better to do 90-10% for battery longevity and environmental variability that's hard to forecast exactly. Also if it's more than one daily recharging that recharge rate dramatically slows down the closer you get to 100% so I would just be sure your mental calculations include that when deciding if you would be happy towing electric. Then of course you may have to unhitch to charge occasionally.

This is great to point out for anyone considering these for hauling. The only thing I'd correct is that battery chemistry should dictate your charging routine for longevity. Maintaining a state of charge (SOC) </= 75% is considered ideal across the board. With NMC batteries, charging daily in shorter ranges (45-75%) and almost never to 100% is ideal. For LFP, charging larger spans (20-80%) and up to 100% monthly is better.

I can't remember exactly what Scouts plan is for chemistry in their different sized batteries, but I believe the large range in the base model is LFP and the shorter range in the harvester is NMC.

 

[colinnwn]

I'd agree for daily use longevity look at the chemistry as well as the specific cell manufacturer recommendations. And I wouldn't get an electric tow vehicle for daily long distance use. It would get tiring. Maybe it could make sense for contractor local towing.

But for the occasional 1-2 x month tow camping trip, almost no one has the patience and extra time to do use only 60% or less of current capacity batteries. Most will likely want to take the small degradation hit of getting closer to the limits.

Of course it's still provisional data but I've read a couple of reports of manufacturer studies that found on car batteries of various chemistries that were well temperature controlled, DC fast charging degradation was negligible as long as you were staying between I think 90-20%.

 

[BasilPrometheus]

I'd agree for daily use longevity look at the chemistry as well as the specific cell manufacturer recommendations. And I wouldn't get an electric tow vehicle for daily long distance use. It would get tiring. Maybe it could make sense for contractor local towing.

But for the occasional 1-2 x month tow camping trip, almost no one has the patience and extra time to do use only 60% or less of current capacity batteries. Most will likely want to take the small degradation hit of getting closer to the limits.

Of course it's still provisional data but I've read a couple of reports of manufacturer studies that found on car batteries of various chemistries that were well temperature controlled, DC fast charging degradation was negligible as long as you were staying between I think 90-20%.

Couldn't agree more, I definitely think the harvester would be better for the sake of convenience but in reality towing with EVs just isn't great.

Yeah degradation from fast charging probably won't be something noticeable in the long-term. I only mentioned avoiding higher SOCs because the idle voltage is much higher beyond ~80%, especially for LFP.

 

[Mike from Portland]

Solid state batteries may be more widely used in the next 2-3 years providing better range, charge times, and safety.. Maybe Scout will be a leader and incorporate them into their products. If anyone hears of this possibility please post up.

 

[TwoJacks]

Most Rivians towing that kind of trailer report a hit of around 50% range. Even if batteries could handle 0-100% and you have the patience for the last 20%, nobody with an EV actually drives to 0%. Even if you’re that brave, the chance of chargers being placed exactly where you need them is zero. You have to figure 20-80% will be normal on an extended trip, so at 50% range, 20-80% gets you 105 miles of range on the BEV. Traveling cross country and needing to stop for half an hour every 100 miles would be a nightmare. Assuming the Harvester takes the same hit, you could maybe get 200 miles before you need to get gas, but then since the battery won’t have any independent range left, you’d get 175 miles of range with each fill up. At least the fill ups could be quick though. Of course if you have a 4500 lb dry trailer, you’ll be over the 5000 lb limit on the Harvester as soon as you put water in the tank. Our trailer is 3750 dry and I think we’ll be marginal on the Harvester working for us.

 

[Mousehunter]

Just a thought/fear. Various aspects effect loss of mileage while towing. RV's might not be the heaviest thing you can tow-but they tend to have terrible wind resistance.

I have an Airstream. While I may tow occasionally, I find most of my tows for camping to be well under 100 miles-many are only 50 miles. Many camp sites offer both a 30 and 50 amp service. It might even be possible to charge overnight at the campground. The only real issue will be the desire to boondock and use the EV as a battery bank for the RV's AC.

 

[colinnwn]

State parks in most states still allow electric car charging, though that could change. Some private campgrounds are banning it which I think is stupid. Meter your electricity per site if you are that worried about it.

We tow mostly for RV camping but we are the opposite of you. We've exhausted most campgrounds within 200 miles of home, and they get too busy to be pleasant. Most of our camping trips are 300-600 miles from home and we will drive the whole way up to 400 miles or sometimes more in a day, and to areas where electric chargers are uncommon.

 

[Mousehunter]

Not sure how common it is, but some local RV parks have put in charging stations - simple way to meter it I guess.