Visual reminder to oil change during break in (at 1000 miles)

[4RunnerDude]

I changed the first oil today at 1400 miles and it was surprisingly dark for a brand new engine. I feel like it was darker than usual compared to NA engines. To your point, turbos beat up the oil more. Maybe it's not a bad idea to do 3 oil changes in 10k versus 2? Just surprised when thinking that Toyota engineers say to wait to 10k.

Care Care Nut says for Turbos you need oil changes MORE FREQUENTLY than his usual 5k. He recommends somewhere between 3k and 3.5k miles.
Also--get in the habit of sitting in your car for a minute or so to let the oil settle down and cool before shutting off the car.

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[charliemanse]

Care Care Nut says for Turbos you need oil changes MORE FREQUENTLY than his usual 5k. He recommends somewhere between 3k and 3.5k miles.
Also--get in the habit of sitting in your car for a minute or so to let the oil settle down and cool before shutting off the car.

I’ve wondered about this, I have heard a lot of people say it, but isn’t the oil being cooled as well throughout the drive? I sit there for a minute after my commute, but the oil temp on the gage doesn’t seem to change at all?

 

[4RunnerDude]

Must watch: see 4:14 for the answer.

 

[charliemanse]

no I get the point he's making, and I agree with it, but I've only seen the gage (oil temp gage, not the coolant one) change values at startup. It gets to operating temp after a few mins of idling or a min or so of driving. But never seen it drop below that after my drive to cool down (while the engine's still running). I suspect it's maintained at operating temp on purpose and if it's at operating temp, then per CCN we shouldn't have much sludge build up right? Hence my question about needing to idle it for it to settle down....what use is idling if the oil temp isn't going down?

I'm no mechanic, but this doesn't logically make sense to me. Maybe I'm driving it gingerly enough to not see high temps on the turbo. Either way, appreciate the info, will still continue the cooldown practice.

 

[4RunnerDude]

The key statement at the end applies. Vehicles are getting more complicated which means more can break and where classic Toyota vehicles could be abused maintenance wise the new gen won’t work like that. So yall thinking you can just do what you’ve always done will be in for an awakening.

I’m sure the community will eventually find that “sweet spot” for maintenance. It’s your metal. Do it your way. But I’m paying attention to the details.

 

[HVLA]

Not to (somewhat) disagree with seemingly everyone here...but I am ;-).

I find it curious that so many people know more than the experts (that is, the folks that designed the vehicle). My thought is that, if the designer thinks every 10K miles is right, then it is probably right. Yes, if you idle your engine a lot, drive very slow/lower gears a lot, such that your mileage does not reflect engine rotations well, then it should probably be done more often. I am also not saying that an initial earlier change is a bad idea, although still not convinced it is necessary.

Mechanics that have been around forever (and I am not saying anything bad really, I very much respect their expertise!) have something in common with many techs (not just car): they started with certain guidelines, but never change. Modern engines run cleaner, oil makeup is different, so it makes sense that oil change interval requirements are different. I still hear people advocating 3000 mile oil changes--great way to waste oil in most cases.

Some non-scientific personal data:

My first car, which I bought brand new, was a 1984 Honda Civic. I did the first 2 oil changes at, or probably a bit before, the recommended interval from Honda (I think even way back then it was 7500 miles). Then I switched to Mobile 1 synthetic. Back then it claimed (on the bottle) it was good for 25,000 miles. So, I changed it roughly at that interval (usually closer to 20,000 and only started that routine after the Honda warranty period ended). I reasoned that there would still be wear particles in the oil, so changed the oil filter only at roughly a 7500 interval. How did that go, you ask? Well, the first significant engine problem I had was when one cylinder lost some compression. It was still entirely drivable, still got great mileage (it has dropped to about 40 MPG from the high 40s). Quite a few miles later it lost all compression on another cylinder. That did affect it (it would still drive though!) but at that time I figured that driving it on 2.5 cylinders would not last long, so retired the car. That was at just under 30 years and over 387,000 miles. Although Mobil no longer makes those claims (probably because it does not follow manufacturer guidelines) but it seems that it really did last that long. BTW, the oil remained about the same viscosity (by my subjective feel) until the end, and after each filter change it cleaned up to look like new.

I also had a 1998 Ford Explorer I bought new and treated similarly. I sold it with well over 100,000 miles, never had any engine problem at all, and it was still running perfectly.

I also had a Chevy Tahoe, although I got that used, so cannot say much--but it also had no lubrication-related engine problems.

Last vehicle--the one the 4Runner replaced--is a 2000 Toyota Sienna. My (at the time) girlfriend purchased it new, so I do not know the early history--although I am sure she followed the manufacturer guidelines. Once we met I basically started my cycle. I got the vehicle after she passed from a stroke, and I still have it with 372,000 miles. I am retiring it because it will not pass smog--it runs perfectly and also has never had any significant engine repair (I think the biggest was replacing one of the spark plug coils--obviously oil did not affect that).

Even based on my limited personal, non-scientific data, I find it hard to believe that changing oil every few thousand miles is needed. I will follow Toyota's recommendation for my 4Runner--at least through the warranty period. After that--don't know. I will probably continue the 10,000 mile guidance.

The point is 10k isnt recommended for any reason other than the EPA DOT Label score. If they recommend 5k intervals that score drops. Simple as that.

 

[Drewbice]

Dropped the oil at the 1000 mile mark to flush out the expected metal particles and will be repeating it at 2500 and 5000.

This is completely normal for all new and rebuilt engines so nothing is abnormal here for people that arent familiar its a visual representation to remind you how dirty they really are.

Change the oil at your own discretion, this is only my experience, some may find some fine dust, some may not and some may just complain because this is the internet and they spent $25 on oil for their 55k truck of their own free will and want to cause debates.

Did you take it into Toyota to do the change, or Jiffy Lube/At home?

 

[Joey_Midnight]

Did you take it into Toyota to do the change, or Jiffy Lube/At home?

At home, my friend just got a 2025 integra. We dropped the oil around 1800 miles last weekend to find the same kind of faint metallic flake at the bottom as well.

 

[Drewbice]

At home, my friend just got a 2025 integra. We dropped the oil around 1800 miles last weekend to find the same kind of faint metallic flake at the bottom as well.

Got ya. I am not as mechanically skilled, so I am going to take it into a shop. Toyota would do the oil change since they are offering it at 5k miles right?

 

[Joey_Midnight]

Got ya. I am not as mechanically skilled, so I am going to take it into a shop. Toyota would do the oil change since they are offering it at 5k miles right?

Im not sure how each dealerships free oil changes work. I haven't gone back to the dealer for them yet, you will have to ask them.

 

[HVLA]

Got ya. I am not as mechanically skilled, so I am going to take it into a shop. Toyota would do the oil change since they are offering it at 5k miles right?

Always time to get mechanically skilled.

 

[Hacksaw]

I have a serious question, not intended to be snarky. For the people doing these early engine oil changes at or before ~1-2k miles, how come you don't do the transmission oil too? Isn't it pretty likely you'd see the same fine metal debris in the transmission pan's oil as a "normal" outcome with a brand new transmission?

Plus, Toyota has had recent issues/failures with both transmissions and engines having excessive debris that wasn't properly flushed after assembly. Or at least that is what they claim led to those failures and subsequent recalls.

 

[HVLA]

I have a serious question, not intended to be snarky. For the people doing these early engine oil changes at or before ~1-2k miles, how come you don't do the transmission oil too? Isn't it pretty likely you'd see the same fine metal debris in the transmission pan's oil as a "normal" outcome with a brand new transmission?

Plus, Toyota has had recent issues/failures with both transmissions and engines having excessive debris that wasn't properly flushed after assembly. Or at least that is what they claim led to those failures and subsequent recalls.

I would say that since oil is changed more often and has a history of including break in additives and trans fluid isnt changed as often and no history of additives that is probably why.

 

[SC4Runner]

Got ya. I am not as mechanically skilled, so I am going to take it into a shop. Toyota would do the oil change since they are offering it at 5k miles right?

I took mine at 1k to my local mechanic, b/c the salesman told me I would struggle to have oil changed at the 5k mark. I really don’t want to beg people to take my money or spend a lot of time showing someone they are wrong.

 

[Joey_Midnight]

I have a serious question, not intended to be snarky. For the people doing these early engine oil changes at or before ~1-2k miles, how come you don't do the transmission oil too? Isn't it pretty likely you'd see the same fine metal debris in the transmission pan's oil as a "normal" outcome with a brand new transmission?

Plus, Toyota has had recent issues/failures with both transmissions and engines having excessive debris that wasn't properly flushed after assembly. Or at least that is what they claim led to those failures and subsequent recalls.

Its a good question and i will be flushing mine a bit early at 15k because of those issues the tacos had but typically transmissions dont get as dirty as fast as engine oil because the engine oil is exposed to combustion and debris from the fuel and air, the transmission is sealed to its self without the blow by of burnt fuel constantly being dropped into it. Same goes for the differential oil.

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