Blind Spot Monitor Lights Abnormal

[jwatte]

the little sensors should be easily removed and replaced

But how do you make them match the color?

if PPF is causing the issue it should be present all the time

Everything is statistics. It might be that, normally, almost all cases are "within the curve" and work, but with some modification that "pushes the bell curve," some cases now fall outside the working parameters.

That being said, punching/cutting holes around the radar sensor, rather than removing the entire film, would perhaps be a lower impact approach.

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[Bob Taylor]

But how do you make them match the color?

I was informed that the little sensors I mentioned are proximity sensors, not radar. Radar is built into the bumper.

 

[ColdCase]

I dunno. is it practical to drive around without a rear facia. Can they throw a spare facia on it?

Seems to be plenty of members here that use PFF without issue.

I wouldn't think many service techs understand RADAR.

Thickness of paint has really no affect on RADAR performance at these frequencies. Paint that contains metal may. Interference from airport RADARs or military jammers may. Weak, improperly installed, or out of calibration RADARS is more likely. Problems with the camera on the underside of outside mirror is more likely. Did they get PFF on any of the cameras or acoustic sensors?

I just don't know how Porsche integrates the cameras with the blind spot RADARs. I know when the mirror cameras are not calibrated after a system reset, blind spot may not work. The front side collision warnings are all base on camera sensor video. The front collision warning is based on both the front RADAR and video.

 

[Bob Taylor]

I dunno. is it practical to drive around without a rear facia. Can they throw a spare facia on it?

Seems to be plenty of members here that use PFF without issue.

I wouldn't think many service techs understand RADAR.

Thickness of paint has really no affect on RADAR performance at these frequencies. Paint that contains metal may. Interference from airport RADARs or military jammers may. Weak, improperly installed, or out of calibration RADARS is more likely. Problems with the camera on the underside of outside mirror is more likely. Did they get PFF on any of the cameras or acoustic sensors?

I just don't know how Porsche integrates the cameras with the blind spot RADARs. I know when the mirror cameras are not calibrated after a system reset, blind spot may not work. The front side collision warnings are all base on camera sensor video. The front collision warning is based on both the front RADAR and video.

For what it worth... Google's Gemini App says:
On the Porsche Macan EV, the radar sensors for Lane Change Assist (blind spot protection) are located behind the rear bumper cover, one on each side (left and right).

Sensor Placement and Function

• Location: They are mounted internally on the vehicle's rear quarter panels, hidden by the plastic bumper skin. This allows them to "see" through the bumper to monitor the areas diagonally behind and to the sides of the car.
• Detection Range: These sensors typically monitor a range from approximately 6 mph to 155 mph. They detect vehicles in your blind spot or those approaching quickly from behind in adjacent lanes.
• Interaction with Other Systems: These same rear radar sensors are also responsible for Rear Cross Traffic Alert, which warns you of approaching vehicles while you are reversing out of a parking spot.

Visual Warnings
When these sensors detect a vehicle in your blind spot, they trigger the LED warning lights located in the exterior side mirrors.

• Information Level: If your turn signal is off, the LED stays dimly lit to inform you a vehicle is there.
  
  
• Warning Level: If you activate your turn signal while a vehicle is detected, the LED flashes brightly to warn you against changing lanes.

Maintenance Tip
Because these sensors are located behind the rear bumper, it is important to keep the rear of the car relatively clean. Significant build-up of mud, heavy snow, or thick ice on the bumper surface can occasionally obstruct the radar’s ability to "see" through the plastic, which might trigger a "sensor blocked" message on your dashboard.

 

[FirstEV]

This specific problem was an issue my head of service noticed himself when he test drove my car after one of the (many) issues it was in for. They took diagnostics and sent it to Porsche AG, about a week later it was an ECU/nano chip thing (can’t remember what it was called) that needed to be changed. Took a day to replace, worked flawless again after that.

Just save yourself some time and take it in for diagnostics, may save you a few days of speculating.

 

[Bob Taylor]

This specific problem was an issue my head of service noticed himself when he test drove my car after one of the (many) issues it was in for. They took diagnostics and sent it to Porsche AG, about a week later it was an ECU/nano chip thing (can’t remember what it was called) that needed to be changed. Took a day to replace, worked flawless again after that.

Just save yourself some time and take it in for diagnostics, may save you a few days of speculating.

That sounds more logical than repainting the bumper. My dealer just updated the software and said that should fix it (Nope) - Though there were fewer false positives than before the update.

 

[EVowner]

Service center gave me their word that if problem will persist even after PPF removal from bumper they will pay for reinstallation. I will post update once I hear back from them.

My car has many other problems and after 6 months I can clearly see they have no idea how to fix it nor even properly diagnose it. From what I heard Porsche keeps insame amount of data (depending who you ask it is 60% or even more) from diagnostics to themeselves, so what issues are disclossed even to service centers or owners is fully under their control. On top of that Porsche seems to treat their cars as holy objects and service centers cant replace anything under warranty without their prior approval.

I can imagine this service model can maybe work for high end limited run models to protect their IP, but forcing it on mass produced models is insame.

 

[FirstEV]

Service center gave me their word that if problem will persist even after PPF removal from bumper they will pay for reinstallation. I will post update once I hear back from them.

My car has many other problems and after 6 months I can clearly see they have no idea how to fix it nor even properly diagnose it. From what I heard Porsche keeps insame amount of data (depending who you ask it is 60% or even more) from diagnostics to themeselves, so what issues are disclossed even to service centers or owners is fully under their control. On top of that Porsche seems to treat their cars as holy objects and service centers cant replace anything under warranty without their prior approval.

I can imagine this service model can maybe work for high end limited run models to protect their IP, but forcing it on mass produced models is insame.

Many dealers do not choose to send a ticket to Germany, either due to laziness or because they believe they already know the answer. Have they actually sent anything to PAG for confirmation?

The main reason they can’t replace anything prior to approval is that most parts are not kept locally and sometimes need to be shipped from Germany. Secondly, they wait for approval because otherwise they will not get paid for the spare part or the labour. Warranty guarantees that they are fully compensated for everything, including diagnostics.

Yes, it is true that Porsche keeps diagnostics to themselves, as anyone would, since these are trade secrets and service centers are technically third parties. That being said, it doesn’t really matter in practice, because Porsche will still make a decision based on the data, so you will receive a solution either way.

 

[EVowner]

Many dealers do not choose to send a ticket to Germany, either due to laziness or because they believe they already know the answer. Have they actually sent anything to PAG for confirmation?

The main reason they can’t replace anything prior to approval is that most parts are not kept locally and sometimes need to be shipped from Germany. Secondly, they wait for approval because otherwise they will not get paid for the spare part or the labour. Warranty guarantees that they are fully compensated for everything, including diagnostics.

Yes, it is true that Porsche keeps diagnostics to themselves, as anyone would, since these are trade secrets and service centers are technically third parties. That being said, it doesn’t really matter in practice, because Porsche will still make a decision based on the data, so you will receive a solution either way.

While I could probably agree that they were lazy and dismissive in the begining I somehow doubt that they are not paying attention now as we are at point where made it very clear that if everything is not fixed this time I want my money back and then it is them who will be stuck with this "marvel of german engineering". Hence them trying to blame PPF to have at least something to show me that it is my fault that blind spot monitor is crazy.

I honestly cant agree with your interpretation of Porsche keeping 60%+ of diagnostic data to themselves. If this was disclossed openly by sales people who must know, because service centers are part of dealerships, many potential customers would walk away, because other brands dont do this to this insame extent.

Believing that manufacturer cares if you as owner is happy with their car once it is sold and will at their expense disclose and fix every non mass lawsuit treathening issue in this day and age of corporate greed is laughable idea. Thats why normally it is dealership service centers that can see issues in diagnostics that try to proactively fix them. Again not because they care if you are happy owner, but because they understand that pissed customer will not come back to buy another car from them or if they wont be able to fix the car it will be them who will be stuck with it in the end.

 

[EVowner]

As promised here is update about my blind spot monitor after service center removed PPF from rear bumper.

Objectively false detections are lower now, but they are still there. I have been driving loaner Macan for a month and that one had 0 false positives during that whole time. During that month service center was asked by factory to measure paint thickness on rear bumper, but claimed that there is no such tool to measure it on plastic bumper. Germany then proceeded to send over tool and yet when I was taking car back and asked if they measured it they said no because they believe removing PPF fixed the problem... When I asked them if we can measure it now and compare it to the loaner car outside answer was that they don't see any reason to do that and it will measured only on consequent visit if I will state that issue is still present...

So my conclusion at this point it time is that either radar or paint thickness on bumper on my car is the source of the issue and PPF was somehow (no idea how thin piece of plastic can do such thing nor service center could explain when asked) just magnifying it.

Out of curiosity for those who have this issue, what color is your car?

Mine is Gentian Blue Metallic. Loaner that was having no issues was just base Black.

@ironcitijc Have they managed to already replace your rear bumper? And if so, did fix your blind spot monitor?

 

[Fadz]

As promised here is update about my blind spot monitor after service center removed PPF from rear bumper.

Objectively false detections are lower now, but they are still there. I have been driving loaner Macan for a month and that one had 0 false positives during that whole time. During that month service center was asked by factory to measure paint thickness on rear bumper, but claimed that there is no such tool to measure it on plastic bumper. Germany then proceeded to send over tool and yet when I was taking car back and asked if they measured it they said no because they believe removing PPF fixed the problem... When I asked them if we can measure it now and compare it to the loaner car outside answer was that they don't see any reason to do that and it will measured only on consequent visit if I will state that issue is still present...

So my conclusion at this point it time is that either radar or paint thickness on bumper on my car is the source of the issue and PPF was somehow (no idea how thin piece of plastic can do such thing nor service center could explain when asked) just magnifying it.

Out of curiosity for those who have this issue, what color is your car?

Mine is Gentian Blue Metallic. Loaner that was having no issues was just base Black.

@ironcitijc Have they managed to already replace your rear bumper? And if so, did fix your blind spot monitor?

Mine is Ice Grey Metallic. I had this issue a couple of months after purchased, October 23, 2024. Took to the dealer 3 times and no resolution so far. Dealer told me that this BSM abnormality issue has been reported to Porsche HQ Germany that was a year ago and haven't heard anything from the dealer since then. What a bad luck...

 

[jwatte]

The theory "metallic paint interferes with radar" is at the same time easy to dismiss, but also actually plausible...
FWIW, I haven't noticed blind spot problems (although it's super conservative when I want to change lane into a tight-as-always gap on California freeways) and I don't have a metallic paint.

 

[ColdCase]

My 2011 Mercedes based Jeep had metallic paint which didn't seem to affect the RADARs. They seemed to be flawless. Loved the heaters they put in the front to melt off ice and snow.

Perhaps Porsche puts more metal in their paint. The ice gray changes shades with light, so there may be some metallic in it. I don't "think" the Porsche RADARs, both front and side, are as sensitive or robust as the Mercedes RADARs of a decade+ ago.

 

[ironcitijc]

As promised here is update about my blind spot monitor after service center removed PPF from rear bumper.

Objectively false detections are lower now, but they are still there. I have been driving loaner Macan for a month and that one had 0 false positives during that whole time. During that month service center was asked by factory to measure paint thickness on rear bumper, but claimed that there is no such tool to measure it on plastic bumper. Germany then proceeded to send over tool and yet when I was taking car back and asked if they measured it they said no because they believe removing PPF fixed the problem... When I asked them if we can measure it now and compare it to the loaner car outside answer was that they don't see any reason to do that and it will measured only on consequent visit if I will state that issue is still present...

So my conclusion at this point it time is that either radar or paint thickness on bumper on my car is the source of the issue and PPF was somehow (no idea how thin piece of plastic can do such thing nor service center could explain when asked) just magnifying it.

Out of curiosity for those who have this issue, what color is your car?

Mine is Gentian Blue Metallic. Loaner that was having no issues was just base Black.

@ironcitijc Have they managed to already replace your rear bumper? And if so, did fix your blind spot monitor?

Yes bumper was replaced but I still got random Blindspot notifications and then I started getting persistent driver assistance system maybe limited messages and the little icon indicating it couldn’t read street signs went on and stayed on. Unfortunately it had to go back in yet again and the dealership recalibrated or reset the front camera and that eliminated those error messages. It’s only been a week or so since I got the car back so I don’t know if all the gremlins are gone, but I somehow doubt it because last weekend for no reason I had no sound coming out of the Bose speakers and that’s never been an issue before. The only way that resolved itself was to park the car lock it and leave it for an hour.

 

[EVowner]

Yes bumper was replaced but I still got random Blindspot notifications and then I started getting persistent driver assistance system maybe limited messages and the little icon indicating it couldn’t read street signs went on and stayed on. Unfortunately it had to go back in yet again and the dealership recalibrated or reset the front camera and that eliminated those error messages. It’s only been a week or so since I got the car back so I don’t know if all the gremlins are gone, but I somehow doubt it because last weekend for no reason I had no sound coming out of the Bose speakers and that’s never been an issue before. The only way that resolved itself was to park the car lock it and leave it for an hour.

I am sorry, but I am bit confused.
According to your previous post service center replaced yout rear bumper as a test and then blind spot monitor worked fine. Do you know what color was that one? Or was that one not painted at the time of the test and then after testing it they proceeded to paint it to match your car color?
You also say that you took your car back to them for front facing sensors/camera and they did recalibrate those. Have they also recalibrated blind spot and is it fixed now or it still goes of randomly? Also what color is your car if you don't mind asking?

As for the Bose audio issues mine has those from day one. I have observed 3 distinct issues with it:
1. The one that you describe - no audio from any source, with only fix locking the car and waiting around 20-30minutes. This one is very rare and I have experienced maybe only twice in my car and once also in loaner Macan.
2. Whole infotainment does not boot up and it is stuck on Porsche/Macan logo - technically not audio issue per say, but you still end up with no sound. This one is sort of rare and I have experienced maybe 10 times in my car and once also in loaner Macan. The fix is the same as the first one.
3. Music just randomly pauses - this one happens both for radio and internal Spotify app. Clicking play again resumes playback. This one happens on mine almost every other drive around 7 minutes into driving. On a loner Macan that I had for a month it never happened.

Service center said these are known SW bugs, which I find with that third one very weird as loaner Macan was not doing this, but it is also true that one did not have passenger display so maybe that one is tied to that?

@jwatte Mine issue with blind spot has nothing to do with even changing the lane it just randomly goes off even on the passenger side when there is no lane next to the car...

@Fadz Mine service center has not mentioned anything about blind spot false positives being tied to some knows SW issue once. And trust me they tried to blame as much faults as they can on SW on my car.

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