Turmoil at VW: Porsches Postponed by Buggy Software Cost VW’s CEO His Job

[Yugi]

Porsche with Tesla like software should be the goal for new CEO.

 

[Archimedes]

Porsche with Tesla like software should be the goal for new CEO.

So I have a ‘22 4S and my car works perfectly save for Apple CarPlay starting up on its own when I get in. What am I missing that I’d get if Tesla wrote the code? The ability to play Pole Position or Space Invaders on the PCM screen?

 

[gnop1950]

So I have a ‘22 4S and my car works perfectly save for Apple CarPlay starting up on its own when I get in. What am I missing that I’d get if Tesla wrote the code? The ability to play Pole Position or Space Invaders on the PCM screen?

I've had the same experience. Oh, and CarPlay music starts automatically in all of my cars, (Porsche, Acura, Toyota) unless I turn the music off on the phone before shutting down the cars so I'm inclined to believe it is more of a CarPlay "feature" and not something you'd need to worry about in a Tesla in any event

The only issues with the software I've had is after two of the OTA updates I had to take minor actions to get CarPlay to activate. The only other issue was with my PWCC and a software update, new certificate, fixed that issue and it never affected my ability to charge.

While I understand others have had issues, I can only go by my experience. Now, either I'm one of the luckiest Taycan owners alive or the incremental improvements they've been making over the past 3 years have been gradually fixing the issues others have been having which is, perhaps, why I'm not having those issues.

 

[TDinDC]

So I have a ‘22 4S and my car works perfectly save for Apple CarPlay starting up on its own when I get in. What am I missing that I’d get if Tesla wrote the code? The ability to play Pole Position or Space Invaders on the PCM screen?

Farts on demand!

Actually, I do think the UI on Tesla is much better. I wish that I could open and close all doors from the dash, and I wish that the menu/nesting were more intuitive.

But, my car works perfectly (with colored icons) and I'm beginning to realize that the owner experience for MY22 is likely very, very different than it is for our friends with MY 20-21

 

[npx]

having been part of an ISO cert effort for automotive tier 2 manufacturers, I can tell you how absolutely fucking worthless they are for almost anything internal.

if you want to have a good quality process, you don't get that from implementing certified ISO 9001. you need management and engineers who are empowered to move the needle on quality and time to develop, refine, test, and fix. you need people who have done development in a quality environment with proper program management and clear process and SQA. these are safety and life critical systems and they cannot be developed like you're making a toy or rushed.

Tesla does not have a major focus on physical quality as Porsche does. undisputed I think. Tesla clearly has better software, but they've also been developing it for almost a decade from the original model s, whereas the Taycan and PCM6 in general is new as of a few years ago.

I will point out that as a FW/HW engineer, there is a very, VERY different kind of engineer that designs the infotainment vs one who does battery and motor electronics. I wouldn't be so quick to say porsche has no clue what they're doing on the electronics side. you don't get the same kind of people working on those two systems.

 

[DCYL725]

Porsche’s valuation fell because of market conditions, not company performance.

Hard to say now that we are after the fact.
How to justify their ev sotp valuation given how far behind their software is? Do they get 100x on that segment only for the taycan and current crap software like what other pure plays are getting?
The delay in Macan slows down their revenue mix away from ICE, which will trade at industry slight premium (75th percentile).
If I’m looking at the ipo and the market is baking in a large proportion of valuation to the EV story, I’d be scratching my head.
I think the current market conditions just accelerated the market to realize Porsche’s intrinsic value.
At 100bn euro ipo is way over valued regardless of discount rates and other macro factors.

though all in all, he lost his job because of other mess ups too, not limited to Porsche only.

 

[feye]

Porsche IPO went from 100bn Euro valuation vs. 50bn Euro, that's a large chunk of shareholder value lost. His no. 1 responsibility as CEO is to create shareholder value and he failed.

The software is so vital because, in order for Porsche to get the EV segment valuation from investors, software and hardware need to be delivered and comparable to competitors. In Porsche's case, they were not. We are talking about a magnitude of 10's in valuation multiples if Porsche had software ready to go and be competitive, and Macan EV set for 2023.

This EV trend won't last forever and there is a limited window to max out valuations and unfortunately, Porsche wasn't able to. Pity.

We all know Taycan software sucks hard. We can let it pass because of the way it drives, but not every consumer is like posters in Porsche/Taycan forums.

If Porsche CEO would see his "no. 1 responsibility" to create shareholder value instead of delivering great driving machines to his customers, he would be a total failure and I certainly would never buy a Porsche again.

Remember the shareholder value idiocy of Mercedes in the 80. Almost destroyed the brand and company, and BWM and Audi got big competitors.

And no, the Taycan software is not great and has bugs, but it does not suck hard.

 

[feye]

Yeah, I agree, sorry I misunderstood what you meant.

I'm personally more worried about being on what is effectively gen 1 of mass BEV adoption. I think my car will lose more money to hardware obsolescence than anything else

I drove an XPENG over the weekend. Trust me, the Taycan will hold up nicely in value, even with a degraded battery, because nothing in the world drives like it!

 

[sebseb]

I dunno, I keep turning my car on everyday and it keeps getting me where I want to go quickly, quietly, and safely in comfort. I think some people just seem to need something to nerd out on and complain about. In the immortal words of Louis CK '...the phone doesn't suck. Your life sucks around the phone...'

If the car's software is buggy, the customer has the right to complain. When paying the price of a Taycan, I would expect things to work well. I personally don't care for all the software features of a Tesla but, for example why on earth does the Taycan not use its cameras as dash cam instead of forcing the customer to install one?

I love the but it's not perfect and it's the complaints that force Porsche to improve. If we all just deal with it, why would Porsche ever bother improve it?

Porsche with Tesla like software should be the goal for new CEO.

No, just no... I think the PCM UI looks much more elegant than Tesla (Specially before they added the color icons).

 

[Jhenson29]

If the car's software is buggy, the customer has the right to complain. When paying the price of a Taycan, I would expect things to work well. I personally don't care for all the software features of a Tesla but, for example why on earth does the Taycan not use its cameras as dash cam instead of forcing the customer to install one?

The camera use (or lack thereof) as described is not a bug. it's just not a feature that is offered (something one would be able to know prior to purchasing), and has nothing to do with whether or not the software works well.

 

[Deleted member 4616]

His no. 1 responsibility as CEO is to create shareholder value

IMO that is a narrow view that works badly some companies.

It is an understandable desire if you are a stock market gambler but two good engineering companies here in the UK went to the dogs after they went public and took this attitude.
I happened to know the MD of one of them and he said he went from long term planning and looking after customers and employees to only being able to do things which influenced the share price short term. It didn't last long. This is very bad in a mechanical engineering company IME.

German comanies make good products because they do not take such an extreme view as you IMHO and I am satisfied that the reduction in value of Porsche is mainly due to market forces and the Russia-Ukraine war.

 

[B61]

So I have a ‘22 4S and my car works perfectly save for Apple CarPlay starting up on its own when I get in. What am I missing that I’d get if Tesla wrote the code? The ability to play Pole Position or Space Invaders on the PCM screen?

Yes, CarPlay starts (almost always) ... but after a whileconnection is (always) lost... then it comes back (after few seconds... up to a minute or two)... or not.... so I could never predict "his" behaviour.

CT4, MY21. software version: MPR3_ER_POG46_P3397

Would I change Taycan with Tesla because of lousy infotaiment?
No way, never!

 

[tutis]

VW software managed by Cariad is a disgrace, and I am sure that more than 1 board member grew impatient with the various bugs in the car, and still not fixed 2 years later.

I just came back from a trip to South of France with the Taycan; at least 4 times the Taycan PCM randomly cancelled the destination in the PCM, silently. It rebooted 3 times spontaneously, needed 2 manual reboots because CarPlay wasn't working anymore. It also lost all media favourites, again.

It also routed me to Porsche chargers at dealership in Frejus, just outside Nice, only to see that the chargers were caput when I arrived with 8% battery. The dealer person kindly came out and apologised saying they had notified Porsche software 2 weeks ago but it kept routing people here. What's maddening is that the Porsche App on my phone has delisted these Porsche Chargers, but the car PCM insisted I should charge there. There aren't any other fast chargers nearby and no fast chargers that work in Nice. Thanks Porsche Geniuses

I have had BMW, Mini, and JLR and none was as bad as Porsche software. Absolutely terrible, unreliable, craptastic software. The VW board should do well to flush Cariad down the drain as well, give a call to Google for Android Automotive, or Blackberry for their QNX infotainment and call it a day.

 

[DCYL725]

IMO that is a narrow view that works badly some companies.

It is an understandable desire if you are a stock market gambler but two good engineering companies here in the UK went to the dogs after they went public and took this attitude.
I happened to know the MD of one of them and he said he went from long term planning and looking after customers and employees to only being able to do things which influenced the share price short term. It didn't last long. This is very bad in a mechanical engineering company IME.

German comanies make good products because they do not take such an extreme view as you IMHO and I am satisfied that the reduction in value of Porsche is mainly due to market forces and the Russia-Ukraine war.

Valid points. Taking note.
Though I didn't mention whether it was short-term value (which is just volatility) or long-term value (which is intrinsic value).
I meant long-term shareholder value/intrinsic value.

 

[DCYL725]

If Porsche CEO would see his "no. 1 responsibility" to create shareholder value instead of delivering great driving machines to his customers, he would be a total failure and I certainly would never buy a Porsche again.

Remember the shareholder value idiocy of Mercedes in the 80. Almost destroyed the brand and company, and BWM and Audi got big competitors.

And no, the Taycan software is not great and has bugs, but it does not suck hard.

Great reference to the 80s.

I read up on that, great case study. Thanks for sharing!