Are we helping in the fight against climate change or just indulging our love of toys (er technology)?

[Deleted member 4616]

speaking about climate changes: imo, they are natural, they comes in cycles while media are making catastrophic news and manipulates citizens all over the world.

In fact the reality is that rich fossil fuel companies have been funding climate change scepticism for 30 years and many people have been convinced.

Real science does not agree with your opinion I am afraid though I see this “it used to be hot sometimes 100 years ago” propaganda often.

 

[B61]

I’m not saying that climate changes do not exist.
i’m saying that 100 years is nothing compared to millions/billions of Earth.
And one even do not live 100 years…

Real science?
Al Gore manipulated data and evrn won Nobel prize for that.
Greta (Thurnberg) should go to school instead to preach in UN, EU, etc…
And think about media… for instance, check this “change”

 

[Deleted member 4616]

I’m not saying that climate changes do not exist.
i’m saying that 100 years is nothing compared to millions/billions of Earth.
And one even do not live 100 years…

Real science?
Al Gore manipulated data and evrn won Nobel prize for that.
Greta (Thurnberg) should go to school instead to preach in UN, EU, etc…
And think about media… for instance, check this “change”

I have seen all that rubbish before.

I do think the media exagerate a bit but after 30 years of successful propaganda I think most non-scientifically people, and that is the majority, are not going to be swung by facts.
Doubt has been deliberately sown by oil companies on purpose for decades.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62225696

I am an old bloke and most of the people I know either don’t understand or don’t care like you

 

[Dabz]

Climate change is a huge thing for me - my business has been carbon neutral (sadly 30% through offsets, the rest through reduction but we're working on reducing use of offsets to avoid greenwashing) for 6 years, we reduce and reuse at home, we have solar with battery storage, we drive less than we used to, try to buy UK food where possible. My main concern is what we're leaving behind for my 7 yr old daughter to deal with - oppressive heatwaves, fires, floods, winds. It'll be a case of those with money survive, those without suffer. The wealthy will simply buy aircon and move to higher ground, the poor will be displaced.

However despite spending a lot of money on this sort of stuff I sadly think we're already stuffed as a species. Too many people do nothing, governments prioritise money and power...how is my carbon neutral office offsetting the high street that has all the shop front lights on all night every night? Instead of fixing the issue, the worlds wealthiest are working on going to other planets so we can leave the issue behind. The film "don't look up" was entertaining but scarily true in equal measures.

An EV isn't helping anyone unless you keep it for a long time...ditching a perfectly usable ICE car for a brand new EV is a false economy in terms of climate impact - the engineering and materials to create the EV alone are huge let alone the distribution. We ship EVs across the planet on diesel boats which pump out plumes of black acrid smoke. Just go to a busy shipping harbour to see and smell for yourself.

Someone said further up the thread though - the planet itself is resilient. It survived previous mass extensions and climate swings. It's not the Earth that we need to worry about, it's the human species.

In the meantime though, if you're going to buy a car why not buy EV if you can afford it and people like Porsche can replace the fun factor of ICE

 

[TaycanHero]

Climate change is a huge thing for me - my business has been carbon neutral (sadly 30% through offsets, the rest through reduction but we're working on reducing use of offsets to avoid greenwashing) for 6 years, we reduce and reuse at home, we have solar with battery storage, we drive less than we used to, try to buy UK food where possible. My main concern is what we're leaving behind for my 7 yr old daughter to deal with - oppressive heatwaves, fires, floods, winds. It'll be a case of those with money survive, those without suffer. The wealthy will simply buy aircon and move to higher ground, the poor will be displaced.

However despite spending a lot of money on this sort of stuff I sadly think we're already stuffed as a species. Too many people do nothing, governments prioritise money and power...how is my carbon neutral office offsetting the high street that has all the shop front lights on all night every night? Instead of fixing the issue, the worlds wealthiest are working on going to other planets so we can leave the issue behind. The film "don't look up" was entertaining but scarily true in equal measures.

An EV isn't helping anyone unless you keep it for a long time...ditching a perfectly usable ICE car for a brand new EV is a false economy in terms of climate impact - the engineering and materials to create the EV alone are huge let alone the distribution. We ship EVs across the planet on diesel boats which pump out plumes of black acrid smoke. Just go to a busy shipping harbour to see and smell for yourself.

Someone said further up the thread though - the planet itself is resilient. It survived previous mass extensions and climate swings. It's not the Earth that we need to worry about, it's the human species.

In the meantime though, if you're going to buy a car why not buy EV if you can afford it and people like Porsche can replace the fun factor of ICE

Why is any species sacred? That's a human concept.

I'm not religious (or atheist), but if nature selects a species for extinction, so be it.

I think part of the confusion with climate change is it's politicised, corrupted, packaged and sold.

This creates scepticism/suspicion that then makes it impossible to solve any problem.

Want to push through your polluting product: just claim you're carbon neutral and that said product is helping with climate change. Free pass.

Humanity is chaotic. Always has been, always will be.

We should be doing more to reduce all forms of pollution and our impact on the environment.

When it comes to climate cycles, humanity should have protocols in place to ensure we prosper whether it gets very hot for decades or very cold for decades.

But when politics does science, disaster happens. See the pandemic as a recent and good example.

As always when humanity is faced with an enormously complex problem, chaos ensues and the problem lasts for as long as the next one starts...

 

[Deleted member 4616]

The wealthy will simply buy aircon and move to higher ground, the poor will be displaced.

It is already happening.
Large swathes of central America have turned to dust bowls and people are starving or migrating north towards the USA.
Ditto in Africa where people are migrating north towards Europe.

I'm not religious (or atheist), but if nature selects a species for extinction, so be it.

This time it isn’t nature that has chosen us for extinction, we look likely to be the first species to cause our own extinction or massive population collapse, taking a few others with us.

The Planet will be fine, other species will thrive after us.

I worry about my children and grandchildren.

 

[B61]

I think part of the confusion with climate change is it's politicised, corrupted, packaged and sold.

Exactly my point(s).

 

[B61]

I have seen all that rubbish before.

I do think the media exagerate a bit but after 30 years of successful propaganda I think most non-scientifically people, and that is the majority, are not going to be swung by facts.
Doubt has been deliberately sown by oil companies on purpose for decades.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62225696

I am an old bloke and most of the people I know either don’t understand or don’t care like you

why rubbish?
i‘m over 60 and I do remember weather reports from the past 20 or 30 years ago… and they were “green”….today red-orange only, for the same (or even lower) temperaturees.
Are you saying those are not facts since they are not published in scientific publications?

I do care about polution, we are not using almost any plastics, we do recycle our garbage, we produce our own food, live in house without aircondition (logbar)…. and i’m looking forward when electro-tractors will be available….
Of course, i’m not an expert for ecology, climate changes, etc…but i remember that we had hot summers 40, 50 years ago…and cold winters…the same as today.

i like this one from Quora:

 

[nickmdp]

why rubbish?
i‘m over 60 and I do remember weather reports from the past 20 or 30 years ago… and they were “green”….today red-orange only, for the same (or even lower) temperaturees.
Are you saying those are not facts since they are not published in scientific publications?

I do care about polution, we are not using almost any plastics, we do recycle our garbage, we produce our own food, live in house without aircondition (logbar)…. and i’m looking forward when electro-tractors will be available….
Of course, i’m not an expert for ecology, climate changes, etc…but i remember that we had hot summers 40, 50 years ago…and cold winters…the same as today.

i like this one from Quora:

I'm just gonna drop this right here:


To add to that though, your personal experience of going through some hot summers and cold winters is relevant in the same way that Jeffrey Dahmer probably went out to eat at McDonald's a few times. It misses the bigger picture of combining all the facts together to understand what's going on.

And just to be needlessly sarcastic, since the sun controls the climate because it's bigger than the earth, I guess we don't need to wear jackets in the cold anymore because those jackets clearly wouldn't do anything to keep us warm since they're just so tiny compared to the sun.

 

[B61]

I have no interests for a such fight…i wish you all the best.
bye

 

[TaycanHero]

why rubbish?
i‘m over 60 and I do remember weather reports from the past 20 or 30 years ago… and they were “green”….today red-orange only, for the same (or even lower) temperaturees.
Are you saying those are not facts since they are not published in scientific publications?

I do care about polution, we are not using almost any plastics, we do recycle our garbage, we produce our own food, live in house without aircondition (logbar)…. and i’m looking forward when electro-tractors will be available….
Of course, i’m not an expert for ecology, climate changes, etc…but i remember that we had hot summers 40, 50 years ago…and cold winters…the same as today.

i like this one from Quora:

Ask most (non religious) people in the West this question:

What is the single biggest factor behind climate change?

Almost everyone says co2. Religious people say God.

What almost everyone overlooks is both sides are describing something based on theories. Much of science is theory.

Is co2 a factor? We don't know as it's never been empirically proven, but it actually doesn't matter.

We should reduce our co2 emissions.

When it comes to solar activity, that has an enormous impact on Earth's climate. No amount of terrestrial co2 emissions will ever influence the sun's impact on Earth's climate. In a few billion years, the entire solar system is going to get very, very cold (what remains of it).

Other things that influence climate on Earth include: albedo effect, galactic radiation, variations in Earth's magnetic field, atmospheric conditions, tilt of the Earth, pitch of the Earth, curve of Earth's rotation around the sun, various factors with the sea, various factors with other terrestrial events like volcanos, volume of flora, volume of fauna, and on and on.

Hence, climate science, being so hugely complex, is either always wrong (good science always updates its discoveries) or always propaganda.

But I will stress, we absolutely should reduce our co2 emissions and all other forms of pollution. It seems much is happening on that front and I'm optimistic for the future.

 

[B61]

But I will stress, we absolutely should reduce our co2 emissions and all other forms of pollution. It seems much is happening on that front and I'm optimistic for the future.

Do you know that level of CO2 is on the lowest level of the entire Earth history?
https://www.quora.com/When-CO2-leve...s-still-rise-by-this-amount?top_ans=204009114

but as i said: i’m not here to fight climate wars ?

 

[JimBob]

Do you know that level of CO2 is on the lowest level of the entire Earth history?

Yeah. It's called the Quaternary aka ice age. CO2 levels ran from about 150ppm to 300ppm as the climate cycled back and forth between cooling and warming periods. Concentration is now 417 ppm and climbing, Based on the past 2 million years, the most likely result is a warmer climate and rising sea levels. Unless of course you think this is all fake news?

If so, and you think CO2 levels are too low, perchance you let us know what would be a good level.

 

[TaycanHero]

Yeah. It's called the Quaternary aka ice age. CO2 levels ran from about 150ppm to 300ppm as the climate cycled back and forth between cooling and warming periods. Concentration is now 417 ppm and climbing, Based on the past 2 million years, the most likely result is a warmer climate and rising sea levels. Unless of course you think this is all fake news?

If so, and you think CO2 levels are too low, perchance you let us know what would be a good level.

Is this the study you are citing?
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090618143950.htm

The scientists concluded CO2 was not "the main trigger" of climate change, but it is intimately linked - possibly because of CO2 stored in glaciers and the sea, where warmer climate sees that CO2 released.

The other issue is measurement. Measuring CO2 going back even 100 years uses a very different method than even 20 years ago, where satellites and other digital tools were used. The study measured CO2 levels in plankton and then estimated what CO2 was going back millions of years...

Alas, could that lead to erroneous conclusions? One data set is an estimate, the other data set uses actual measurements. They were then combined for the 2m year timeline.

That said, it doesn't really matter. Humanity should reduce all forms of pollution. My biggest concern is this bizarre obsession with CO2, where potentially bigger problems could actually lead to an extinction event should we pollute our land and seas with enough toxic waste.

And to your question about CO2, what is a good temperature for planet Earth, factoring in the northern and southern hemisphere and all types of biome?

 

[AndiL]

Oh my goodness. Are we now climate scientists? Ok, then I am also a doctor, soccer coach and politician and what not.

Read the IPCC reports. Frankly this is embarrassing.