"Can EV chargers act like gas stations? That won’t be easy" Article

[TycanNewHampshire]

@riburn3 perhaps this is true for EA for customers that are having trouble getting their session started.....however, the real issue I have is the EA stations simply out of order, or they are restricted to <50kW power due to always being in an 'upgrade' status. Neither of these have been able to be fixed remotely and I have yet to see the same stations have their units come back online over the past 6-months or so. So, respectfully I disagree as the only help they can seem to do remotely is engage the unit if your app or Plug-n-charge is not functioning. However, I do agree their people on the phone are indeed nice, yet they still have failed to fix anything that is truly a charging station issue and not a vehicle connection/payment issue.

 

[riburn3]

@riburn3 perhaps this is true for EA for customers that are having trouble getting their session started.....however, the real issue I have is the EA stations simply out of order, or they are restricted to <50kW power due to always being in an 'upgrade' status. Neither of these have been able to be fixed remotely and I have yet to see the same stations have their units come back online over the past 6-months or so. So, respectfully I disagree as the only help they can seem to do remotely is engage the unit if your app or Plug-n-charge is not functioning. However, I do agree their people on the phone are indeed nice, yet they still have failed to fix anything that is truly a charging station issue and not a vehicle connection/payment issue.

That really stinks. I've coast to coasted a few times and haven't experienced what you have. I guess chargers from LA to Florida on the I-10 corridor are in better shape or serviced by a superior company than where you are in New England. Often there might be a charger or two down at a few location along that route, but often by the time I make the return trip, it's up and running. If a charger has a CHAdeMO, I almost never see it functioning which I guess sucks for LEAF owners.

This seems fairly consistent though with what several Youtuber and other posters have commented on here, that there are definitely patches of the EA network around the country that outshine others.

 

[Jhenson29]

Clearly as we shift to more EV's, the question begs, how many public chargers are really necessary? It shouldn't be nearly as many as gas stations,

I mostly disagree with this. The issue for me is location and convenience when I’m not at home.

A bit like saying we don’t need many restaurants because most people have kitchens. We don’t need public wifi because most people have wifi at home.

Okay, both somewhat poor analogies (restaurants serve additional, separate purposes and you can’t “charge up” on wifi to take it with you….plus there’s a robust cellular network).

But, my point is, just like the kitchen and home wifi….what anyone has at home is irrelevant once they’re not.

Couple that with the fact that amount of gas stations we have create a convenience and redundancy that is independent of the demand (below a certain threshold).

You may be correct that public charging demand will be lower than gas station demand due to people charging at home (or other smaller destinations).

But if “gas-station-esque” locations go down proportionally, then then so does that convenience and redundancy.

 

[riburn3]

I mostly disagree with this. The issue for me is location and convenience when I’m not at home.

A bit like saying we don’t need many restaurants because most people have kitchens. We don’t need public wifi because most people have wifi at home.

Okay, both somewhat poor analogies (restaurants serve additional, separate purposes and you can’t “charge up” on wifi to take it with you….plus there’s a robust cellular network).

But, my point is, just like the kitchen and home wifi….what anyone has at home is irrelevant once they’re not.

Couple that with the fact that amount of gas stations we have create a convenience and redundancy that is independent of the demand (below a certain threshold).

You may be correct that public charging demand will be lower than gas station demand due to people charging at home (or other smaller destinations).

But if “gas-station-esque” locations go down proportionally, then then so does that convenience and redundancy.

Great points, but ultimately it will be market demand. I guess I should rephrase it in that I think there will be more individualized chargers basically anywhere and everywhere, but a centralized gas station model will likely become unnecessary with the exception of very fast chargers scattered around for road trips. Like I mentioned in another post, EV charging has the convenience of being able to essentially be done anywhere. I charged my car at Barnes & Noble and Whole Foods last week on a level 2 charger.

 

[JimBob]

Just my opinion, but I think slower speed chargers scattered around malls and restaurants aren't going to cut it in the long run. I think strategically placed fast DC chargers by companies dedicated to the business plus home charging covers most cases. Plus slower chargers at hotels/motels that are actually available as part of the check in process that you can use overnight. At least the hotel has an incentive to make sure the charger is working.

Plus charging parks in densely populated city and urban areas.

I just can't see how some of these business models for some of these charging companies, are going to be viable.

 

[Jhenson29]

Great points, but ultimately it will be market demand.

Maybe. Depends on what role gov’t plays.

I think there will be more individualized chargers basically anywhere and everywhere, but a centralized gas station model will likely become unnecessary with the exception of very fast chargers scattered around for road trips.

I actually think it may be the opposite. But first, a quick story.

A number of years ago, when I was around 34, my company offered me a deferred compensation plan. It would vest at 55. I declined. The reason was that, at 21 years away, I couldn't depend on that money for retirement. Why? Because if I left at any time before that, it would be zero, and by that time it may be too late to try and make that amount up. So, because I had to plan my retirement funding without that money regardless, by the time I got it, I wouldn't actually need it. My needs would already be met by external planning. Sure it may be nice, but I have no dependence on it.

It's a similar story for the "charge everywhere" model.

There will be chargers everywhere? Great! I can depend on them then, right? Until I can't. Because they aren't available due to being full or broken. Think about the scale and reliability required to enable that level of dependence. Literally anywhere I go to park, maybe even overflow places not intended for actual parking, needs this or I can't depend on it.

Okay. Fine. It's not perfect. So, don't depend on it. It would still be nice, right? Well, maybe, but at the point I can't depend on it, I have to make alternative plans. And then those "everywhere chargers" lose their utility.

So then, would businesses be putting chargers in when people don't need them since they couldn't depend on their availability and reliability? Or probably not. It's a difficult thing to bootstrap.

Additionally, people may not need to charge at these locations regardless. I would expect most people will be local, charge at home, and not need to charge at these businesses.

What about people who aren't local? This is where I strongly agree with @JimBob that the hotel industry is where these chargers are best utilized as they replace the utility of the home chargers.

The need that isn't met is people passing through. And these types of chargers don't serve this need because they're too slow. The need for faster charging would still exist. And the thing is, these faster charging stations can also serve the needs of the few people that aren't just passing through, but, for various reasons, can't remove their dependence from local public charging.

Basically, I see it as being very difficult to create the demand/dependence for this charge everywhere infrastructure that justifies the cost to implement at a level to support that dependence.

Additionally, home chargers (and hotel chargers, as they serve the same purpose) largely remove the dependence anyway.

So, I'm hoping that between all of the above coupled with a demand from the transportation industry pushes towards a model more similar to what gas stations are now.

Just my thoughts.