My 2024 Macan EV Never Seems to DC Fast Charge at its Potential

[daveo4EV]

Again, we disagree. The stress of not being able to understand what is happening is overwhelming for her and she doesn't want to experience it while 1000 miles away from home. It is the car.

yes the North American CCS network (any vendor) can NOT and does NOT provide reliable and predictable service for any EV regardless of diagnostics. it's not reliable.

it only "meets" expectations of the Macan EV "sometimes/rarely" - most charging sessions away from home will be sub-optimal due to network operational issues - again regardless of network operator.

you can not purchase _ANY_ EV in North America and assume/plan that CCS fast charging stops will achieve advertised charging rates.

the faster the advertised charging rate the less often you will experience it - that is the fact of today's EV's and today's North American CCS network.

if 95% or greater predictability is your requirement for CCS charging you should not purchase any North American EV with an expected max charge rate above 50-75 kW…

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[SteveInKirkland]

wow. you bought the wrong product - I suggest you get rid of it today and please don't buy another EV…

I'd recommend a Hybrid - it's a much better product for your situation and will still handle most of your driving with "EV miles" and charge at home - road trips you simply use gas.

in the mean time you can simply suggest this:

"it's not the car - it never was the car - it will never be the car - it's the charing network site" - which again is where we started.

and yes because of this often times (most of the time) the Macan's potential charging curve can not be realized…because of limits in the North American charging infrastructure.

I'll stand by my assertion that in car diagnostics showing that it's the network (EA, Mercedes, ChargePoint, EVGo, Tesla, Rivian, etc) is not going to make you feel better about a 57 kW max charging rate when you plug in your 270 kW capable EV - but we'll disagree on that forever…

the real issue here is the North American CCS charging network is a crap shoot and yes 100% it does NOT deliver reliable or predicable outcomes! That's an indisputable fact and if you can't tolerate that the only solution is not to play. We both agree on that.

Again, respectfully, we disagree. She has experienced rental Tesla charging diagnostics and, as a scientist, she understands what is happening and can explain it to me to give her feedback and feel comfortable enough.

She is capable of understanding the difference in ICE world between problem with car and gas station out of gas.

What she is not capable of doing in her Macan EV, which throws weird error messages on a regular enough basis, is diagnosing any problem with the car related to accepting energy. The feeling she gets from charging is not a luxury experience. She would prefer to avoid the experience.

This conversation literally reminds me of a conversation that I had at Microsoft with an executive in the 1990s blaming users for disliking the irregularities of interacting with the internet at 19.2k baud modems through AOL. Progress dialog boxes were widely introduced and got a little better, but what fixed the user experience was fixing the network. Until the network was fixed, you couldn't skip making a good faith effort at some progress dialog box. And some users opted not to play or to play less because of the total poor user experience.

 

[daveo4EV]

Again, respectfully, we disagree. She has experienced rental Tesla charging diagnostics and, as a scientist, she understands what is happening and can explain it to me to give her feedback and feel comfortable enough.

She is capable of understanding the difference in ICE world between problem with car and gas station out of gas.

What she is not capable of doing in her Macan EV, which throws weird error messages on a regular enough basis, is diagnosing any problem with the car related to accepting energy. The feeling she gets from charging is not a luxury experience. She would prefer to avoid the experience.

This conversation literally reminds me of a conversation that I had at Microsoft with an executive in the 1990s blaming users for disliking the irregularities of interacting with the internet at 19.2k baud modems through AOL. Progress dialog boxes were widely introduced and got a little better, but what fixed the user experience was fixing the network. Until the network was fixed, you couldn't skip making a good faith effort at some progress dialog box. And some users opted not to play or to play less because of the total poor user experience.

it's clear the Macan (or any Porsche) is not the right product for your wife - I wish you luck.

 

[SteveInKirkland]

it's clear the Macan (or any Porsche) is not the right product for your wife - I wish you luck.

My wife has enjoyed our Porsches for more than 25 years. That doesn't mean she's buying a 4 cylinder Boxster.

 

[Petzi]

Again, respectfully, we disagree. She has experienced rental Tesla charging diagnostics and, as a scientist, she understands what is happening and can explain it to me to give her feedback and feel comfortable enough.

She is capable of understanding the difference in ICE world between problem with car and gas station out of gas.

What she is not capable of doing in her Macan EV, which throws weird error messages on a regular enough basis, is diagnosing any problem with the car related to accepting energy. The feeling she gets from charging is not a luxury experience. She would prefer to avoid the experience.

This conversation literally reminds me of a conversation that I had at Microsoft with an executive in the 1990s blaming users for disliking the irregularities of interacting with the internet at 19.2k baud modems through AOL. Progress dialog boxes were widely introduced and got a little better, but what fixed the user experience was fixing the network. Until the network was fixed, you couldn't skip making a good faith effort at some progress dialog box. And some users opted not to play or to play less because of the total poor user experience.

“changing the network” is not porsches responsibility. why don't you just replace the car and unload your wife from this “burden”. (at last)

to the facts:
slow charging: not porsches fault or responsibility
to state this as information on the dashboard : not necessary as everyone knows what is going on.
ps: i never needed windows to tell me that they are not responsible for my telephone line.

so, again buy your wife whatever car she feels comfortable with.

 

[SteveInKirkland]

“changing the network” is not porsches responsibility. why don't you just replace the car and unload your wife from this “burden”. (at last)

to the facts:
slow charging: not porsches fault or responsibility
to state this as information on the dashboard : not necessary as everyone knows what is going on.
ps: i never needed windows to tell me that they are not responsible for my telephone line.

so, again buy your wife whatever car she feels comfortable with.

Just to be clear, she picked the Macan EV! We bought it because she likes it on the surface.

But, after experiencing it on a road trip, she prefers the Tesla style charging experience in the car.

 

[daveo4EV]

Just to be clear, she picked the Macan EV! We bought it because she likes it on the surface.

But, after experiencing it on a road trip, she prefers the Tesla style charging experience in the car.

so if the Macan could use the Tesla supercharger network it would be fine?

and noting that Porsche's software sucks vs. Tesla is also hardly "news" or not well understood.

Porsche loses if you are optimizing for in car software - it loses badly…

also I owned Tesla's since 2012 and use supercharging _A LOT_ - to my knowledge Tesla's in car software shows you current charge rate (like the Macan) but when it's slower than expected it provide _NO DIAGNOSTIC_ information - just shows the current charge rate?

what does your wife do with a Tesla when she's not getting the maximum charge rate at a supercharger and it doesn't show her if it's the car or the network? (admittedly this happens less often than CCS, but it does happen I've personally experienced it multiple times).

Tesla has a great charging UI - but it doesn't show you what the limiting factor is during charing.

 

[SteveInKirkland]

so if the Macan could use the Tesla supercharger network it would be fine?

Unknown.

I'll keep repeating it in different ways. She does not like the way that the Macan EV explains to her what is happening during the charging process. I cannot predict if she will feel comfortable with whatever happens on the Tesla network in the Macan EV.

 

[Petzi]

Just to be clear, she picked the Macan EV! We bought it because she likes it on the surface.

But, after experiencing it on a road trip, she prefers the Tesla style charging experience in the car.

there you have the answer to all your problems: replace the macan with a tesla and everybody is happy

 

[daveo4EV]

Unknown.

I'll keep repeating it in different ways. She does not like the way that the Macan EV explains to her what is happening during the charging process. I cannot predict if she will feel comfortable with whatever happens on the Tesla network in the Macan EV.

so yeah - she just prefers Tesla software vs. Porsche software - that's the issue - Porsche software is no where near as good as a Tesla - again like the CCs network sucking - not a secret.

but let's not pretend it provides any diagnostics - there is nothing a Tesla "shows" you during a charing session that you also can not see on the Macan - but I agree with you and your wife that the Tesla does a much much much better job of user interface - but it is no more or less "diagnostic" than the Macan…

NOTE: recently charging my son's Model Y last week at supercharger - his latest user experience actually shows much less information than I was previously used to with my 2014 ModelS P85D - that charging user interface was an engineer's dream - lots of diagnostics and details about the charging session - that's all gone now in the latest software in my son's Model Y…

sounds like she just prefers the Tesla software and the more reliable supercharger network - vastly more reliable than the CCS network - I can see how the CCS network would be a shock to her system - I have a local resident who moved from Tesla to Lucid and was livid, shocked, amazed, mystified and down right pissed at how bad the CCS charging network experience was - sold the lucid and pivoted back into a Model S…much happier now and is simply amazed at how bad the CCS network was…

it's a common reaction - the CCS network sucks - plain and simple and is _NOT_ the Supercharger network.

things will get slightly better when Macan's can use the Supercharger network…but maybe not enough for your wife.

 

[daveo4EV]

Unknown.

I'll keep repeating it in different ways. She does not like the way that the Macan EV explains to her what is happening during the charging process. I cannot predict if she will feel comfortable with whatever happens on the Tesla network in the Macan EV.

I doubt it will be better - but the network will work more often - there will be less need to interact with the software

no question a Tesla vehicle + Tesla Supercharger network in North America is vastly superior to _ANY_ CCS EV and the CCS network

if your standard is Tesla+Supercharger - yeah - that's comparing a business class seat to flying in cargo hold on a hard bench.

Tesla is better no doubt for fast charging…

CCS network is simply horrible - and if you're used to Tesla - yeah you're going to be distressed.

 

[SteveInKirkland]

so if the Macan could use the Tesla supercharger network it would be fine?

and noting that Porsche's software sucks vs. Tesla is also hardly "news" or not well understood.

Porsche loses if you are optimizing for in car software - it loses badly…

also I owned Tesla's since 2012 and use supercharging _A LOT_ - to my knowledge Tesla's in car software shows you current charge rate (like the Macan) but when it's slower than expected it provide _NO DIAGNOSTIC_ information - just shows the current charge rate?

what does your wife do with a Tesla when she's not getting the maximum charge rate at a supercharger and it doesn't show her if it's the car or the network? (admittedly this happens less often than CCS, but it does happen I've personally experienced it multiple times).

Tesla has a great charging UI - but it doesn't show you what the limiting factor is during charing.

Ah ... you updated the message after I responded.

When she rents a Tesla, which we've been doing for years to get her comfortable, she knows how to enter a more advanced Tesla diagnostic mode and she carries 3rd party hardware/software to have a conversation with me about it.

What she cares about is whether the car is Ok and not about the charging speed, per se.

 

[daveo4EV]

Ah ... you updated the message after I responded.

When she rents a Tesla, which we've been doing for years to get her comfortable, she knows how to enter a more advanced Tesla diagnostic mode and she carries 3rd party hardware/software to have a conversation with me about it.

What she cares about is whether the car is Ok and not about the charging speed, per se.

so you're cracking open a diagnostic/engineering mode on rented Tesla's to determine if the car is "ok" during fast charging - and because you can't do that with the Porsche it's unacceptable (and using 3rd party hardware and software)

I'm done - I have no response - I'm not sure any vendor's car is good for you…

also how often is it "the car" - I've been driving EV's since 2011 - well over 250,000 EV miles - it's never been "the car"…and even if it was - what does it matter?

wow - simple wow…

stick with the Tesla - EU rules and world wide trends is cars are going to be more locked down and less open…and the german's suck at software, and the CCS network is not getting any better anytime soon…

 

[SteveInKirkland]

so yeah - she just prefers Tesla software vs. Porsche software - that's the issue - Porsche software is no where near as good as a Tesla - again like the CCs network sucking - not a secret.

but let's not pretend it provides any diagnostics - there is nothing a Tesla "shows" you during a charing session that you also can not see on the Macan - but I agree with you and your wife that the Tesla does a much much much better job of user interface - but it is no more or less "diagnostic" than the Macan…

NOTE: recently charging my son's Model Y last week at supercharger - his latest user experience actually shows much less information than I was previously used to with my 2014 ModelS P85D - that charging user interface was an engineer's dream - lots of diagnostics and details about the charging session - that's all gone now in the latest software in my son's Model Y…

sounds like she just prefers the Tesla software and the more reliable supercharger network - vastly more reliable than the CCS network - I can see how the CCS network would be a shock to her system - I have a local resident who moved from Tesla to Lucid and was livid, shocked, amazed, mystified and down right pissed at how bad the CCS charging network experience was - sold the lucid and pivoted back into a Model S…much happier now and is simply amazed at how bad the CCS network was…

it's a common reaction - the CCS network sucks - plain and simple and is _NOT_ the Supercharger network.

things will get slightly better when Macan's can use the Supercharger network…but maybe not enough for your wife.

No.

Again, she knows how to use Tesla Service Mode and 3rd party tools to get comfortable with the state of the car.

You just seem to need to believe it is the charging network. She doesn't care about the health of the pump. Only the health of the car she is driving.

 

[daveo4EV]

No.

Again, she knows how to use Tesla Service Mode and 3rd party tools to get comfortable with the state of the car.

You just seem to need to believe it is the charging network. She doesn't care about the health of the pump. Only the health of the car she is driving.

it's not the car - it never is.

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