My 2024 Macan EV Never Seems to DC Fast Charge at its Potential

[Zcd1]

If an occasional extra 10-15 minutes of time spent when DCFcharging is a deal breaker, you should absolutely not buy another EV.

OTOH, whatever ICE SUV you might choose will absolutely be worse to drive, slower, louder, cruder, more expensive to maintain and way less efficient, PLUS you’ll have to go to gas stations.

?‍

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[daveo4EV]

Our original plan was (a) 39 month lease a Tesla Model Y and my wife would use it as a beater on short trips and I would rarely drive it. We would just be waiting for something better to come along and we would buy out the Tesla lease as soon as we found a decent electric SUV. I would just keep driving my sports car and we would rent an internal combustion engine SUV for longer drives. (b) we have a Rivian R2 reservation.

Up until 2 days ago, I thought we would buy a Cayenne EV when it released for our 2nd home. But I think my wife is a hard no on new Porsche SUV EV purchases until we resolve the charging issues.

you understand this is not a Porsche issue? this is an any EV in North America issue. right?

another EV will not behave any better…if you're relying on the CCS network - superchargers are better in terms of predictable charge speeds, but still not 100% - closer to 70-80% of the time you get mostly highest speed possible (or close)…this will be better when Macan can use the supercharger network - more stalls, more predictable charge rates, sometimes less than optimal.

if this is an issue for you - a non-Porsche EV in my opinion won't solve you issues - even with better diagnostics it will still charge at painfully slow rates if the charging site isn't "feeling it" that day when you visit…

I tolerate the fastDC issues since they don't matter 48 weeks out of the year…

also the infrastructure will get better over time - it has to - the current state is not sustainable - and as infrastructure gets better so with the Porsche EV which are some of the fastest charging EV's you can purchase…when the infrastructure is up to the task.

you'll also find very very few EV's that can charge as fast as a Porsche when the conditions are right

your Porsche Macan is being held back by factors external to Porsche's engineering - buying a "lesser" EV won't charge faster when the infrastructure is the problem, and when/if the infrastructure gets better - a lesser EV will not charge as fast…

I'm finding your logic dubious - unless your determination is that owning an EV is not for you - owning a different EV will do nothing to alleviate a crappy Electrify America site that is power limited, overheated, has empty booster batteries, or simply reached it's quota for that week so the company is limiting the cost overruns…etc…

also while I sympathize and agree with your desire for better diagnostics - those diagnostics will not conjure a faster charging sessions - they will simply leave you with the conclusion your vehicle is not the issue (which you can assume most of the time) - so while I love a good set of diagnostics and information - it does nothing to alleviate the wait time at an EA charging stall creeping along at 72 kW…when it should be closer to 280 kW…

the car is not the problem - which is where we started…

99% of the time the limit is the charging stall - nothing to do with the car - also to get max charge rate you have to be low SOC (below 30%) and battery temps need to be "ideal" - otherwise all EV's suffer slower charging speeds ( not just the Macan) - also you won't see the max rate for the entire charge - as the battery fills up charge rate slows down…

there is 99.99999999999999% chance there is nothing wrong with your Macan - the charge rates you are experiences are just a result of environmental conditions outside your control…

I'd rather own a better car and fastest charging EV possible - and benefit when it works and complain when it doesn't vs pivoting into another EV which won't be as nice and will still charge at slow an unpredictable rates when I encounter a crappy charging site…but that's just me.

 

[Petzi]

its like complaining how slow the gasoline is running in the tank at some stations. (i live halftime in florida and know what i am talking about). this has nothing to do with the car !

 

[daveo4EV]

its like complaining how slow the gasoline is running in the tank at some stations. (i live halftime in florida and know what i am talking about). this has nothing to do with the car !

clearly the solution is a different car to solve that problem.

 

[daveo4EV]

the plaintiff has put forth the following assertions:

1. charging is sometimes/often slow at various CCS charging sites around the eastern seaboard
   1. plaintiff also asserts various network operators engage in false advertising by labeling their chargers as 350 kW
2. plaintiff was frustrated by the lack of diagnostic information indicating if the slow charging was a result of vehicle problems or local regional charging site problems
3. plaintiff asserts they will not purchase a Porsche EV in the future…
   1. this has the implied assertion that an alternative EV will perform better

assertion #1: true, it happens, this is common, it is an accurate representation of the current state of CCS charging in North America - but this varies regionally, by time of day, weather, and network operational issues - there is nothing to be done other than attempt to hold the charging network's to a higher standard - an alternative EV will perform no better in these circumstances

assertion #1.1: false advertising and overpromising charging speeds at any given site - the court finds for the plaintiff on this claim and agrees the charging networks are rampant liars and routinely misrepresent their charging stalls/site capabilities and provide no accurate information about likely outcomes. the court rules that all charging networks will provide free charging at all sites for the life given their egregious, rampant, and unrelenting falsehoods - they should be ashamed of themselves and be sent to bed with no dinner. There is no question the charging networks are misrepresenting their charging speeds and the evidence is overwhelming that they continue to do so even in the face of data indicating they can not deliver the product/service they are promising. The charging networks LIE about what you can expect when plugging in.

assertion #2: there is a frustration lack of accurate status/diagnostics which allows a Porsche EV driver/owner to determine if the root cause for any given slow charging session is limited by the vehicle or the charging equipment on site - there are alternative EV's that provide better diagnostics which would allow an owner/driver to more accurately assess if it's the car or the charging site - this information overwhelmingly tends to illuminate problems with the charging network 99.9% of the time - however the diagnostics do nothing to conjure a faster charging session out of thin poorly maintained air…

assertion #3: purchasing a non-Porsche EV will result in better outcomes. presumably because diagnostics make the wound heal faster? Or an EV with a slower optimal charging curve will be immune to CCS network snafu's? the court sees nothing in this assertion that will change the outcome when attempting to charge any CCS EV at a poorly performing site- but it will result in slower overall charging times at a site that is operating at capacity since most EV's optimal charging rate is slower than Porsche's optimal charging rate…the court finds no reason to avoid Porsche EV purchases to avoid slow charging sessions - purchasing an alternative EV will simply guarantee slower charging sessions since few if any EV's can match Porsche's charging curve.

the court rules in favor of Porsche on most counts and notes that EA sucks, it sucks really really hard, it has always sucks, will continue to suck, but will/is getting better very very slowly - even in the absence of concrete diagnostic data one can assume with 99.9% accuracy the problem is _NOT_ the car - it's the sh*tty CCS EV charger you're currently plugged into - and there is little if anything to be done if you are driving any EV…

the _ONLY_ solution is not to play - and move away from an EV - this is a plausible outcome and explains the current state of the world…EA is root cause for a lot of North American "tepidness" about EV's…it's understandable and personally frustrating to me.

 

[SteveInKirkland]

If an occasional extra 10-15 minutes of time spent when DCFcharging is a deal breaker, you should absolutely not buy another EV.

OTOH, whatever ICE SUV you might choose will absolutely be worse to drive, slower, louder, cruder, more expensive to maintain and way less efficient, PLUS you’ll have to go to gas stations.

?‍

You're not really listening if you've read this entire thread and think it is 10-15 minutes of time spent. It is the lack of transparency into whether the car is working correctly coupled with many bad charging experiences and the lack of hope that this will improve because the poor communication / bad charging experiences happen at the flagship infrastructure installations that are brand new. In other words, it is the unpredictable user interface in this Porsche Macan EV that my wife strongly dislikes and turns her off from spending $119k to replace it or $150k+ to buy a Cayenne EV with the same problems.

 

[daveo4EV]

You're not really listening if you've read this entire thread and think it is 10-15 minutes of time spent. It is the lack of transparency into whether the car is working correctly coupled with many bad charging experiences and the lack of hope that this will improve because the poor communication / bad charging experiences happen at the flagship infrastructure installations that are brand new. In other words, it is the unpredictable user interface in this Porsche Macan EV that my wife strongly dislikes and turns her off from spending $119k to replace it or $150k+ to buy a Cayenne EV with the same problems.

will your wife enjoy a slow 35 kW charging session in an EV that clearly shows it's not the car?

"knowing" its' the charger you're using that is slow (not the car) will not change teh outcome - and other EV's can't charge as fast as the Porsche when the charging network is in fact operational…

so your solution is:

• don't buy a Porsche because it doesn't show you why a charging session is slow (hint it's the charger not the car 99.9% of the time)
• purchase another EV which has a slower ideal curve - so it will never charge as fast as the Porsche can charge when conditions are right
• but you and your wife will be thrilled with the new EV when it clearly shows you that the 35 kW charge rate is a result of a power limited charging stall/network and not the car or it's battery …

I recommend the Toyota BRZ4 - it has excellent diagnostics and a very very slow charging rates - it will always meet expectations…none of that nasty fast charging curve for it - it will tootle along at 50 kW max charging speed for most of the charging session until it drops below 20 kW for the last 20%…and you won't need any diagnostics because it never charges fast enough to tax any of the North American charging networks.

https://www.macanevowners.com/forum...v-found-this-lying-in-the-parking-lot….21948/

 

[SteveInKirkland]

the plaintiff has put forth the following assertions:

1. charging is sometimes/often slow at various CCS charging sites around the eastern seaboard
   1. plaintiff also asserts various network operators engage in false advertising by labeling their chargers as 350 kW
2. plaintiff was frustrated by the lack of diagnostic information indicating if the slow charging was a result of vehicle problems or local regional charging site problems
3. plaintiff asserts they will not purchase a Porsche EV in the future…
   1. this has the implied assertion that an alternative EV will perform better

assertion #1: true, it happens, this is common, it is an accurate representation of the current state of CCS charging in North America - but this varies regionally, by time of day, weather, and network operational issues - there is nothing to be done other than attempt to hold the charging network's to a higher standard - an alternative EV will perform no better in these circumstances

assertion #1.1: false advertising and overpromising charging speeds at any given site - the court finds for the plaintiff on this claim and agrees the charging networks are rampant liars and routinely misrepresent their charging stalls/site capabilities and provide no accurate information about likely outcomes. the court rules that all charging networks will provide free charging at all sites for the life given their egregious, rampant, and unrelenting falsehoods - they should be ashamed of themselves and be sent to bed with no dinner. There is no question the charging networks are misrepresenting their charging speeds and the evidence is overwhelming that they continue to do so even in the face of data indicating they can not deliver the product/service they are promising. The charging networks LIE about what you can expect when plugging in.

assertion #2: there is a frustration lack of accurate status/diagnostics which allows a Porsche EV driver/owner to determine if the root cause for any given slow charging session is limited by the vehicle or the charging equipment on site - there are alternative EV's that provide better diagnostics which would allow an owner/driver to more accurately assess if it's the car or the charging site - this information overwhelmingly tends to illuminate problems with the charging network 99.9% of the time - however the diagnostics do nothing to conjure a faster charging session out of thin poorly maintained air…

assertion #3: purchasing a non-Porsche EV will result in better outcomes. presumably because diagnostics make the wound heal faster? Or an EV with a slower optimal charging curve will be immune to CCS network snafu's? the court sees nothing in this assertion that will change the outcome when attempting to charge any CCS EV at a poorly performing site- but it will result in slower overall charging times at a site that is operating at capacity since most EV's optimal charging rate is slower than Porsche's optimal charging rate…the court finds no reason to avoid Porsche EV purchases to avoid slow charging sessions - purchasing an alternative EV will simply guarantee slower charging sessions since few if any EV's can match Porsche's charging curve.

the court rules in favor of Porsche on all counts and notes that EA sucks, it sucks really really hard, it has always sucks, will continue to suck, but will/is getting better very very slowly - even in the absence of concrete diagnostic data one can assume with 99.9% accuracy the problem is _NOT_ the car - it's the sh*tty CCS EV charger you're currently plugged into - and there is little if anything to be done if you are driving any EV…

the _ONLY_ solution is not to play - and move away from an EV - this is a plausible outcome and explains the current state of the world…EA is root cause for a lot of North American "tepidness" about EV's…it's understandable and personally frustrating to me.

Look, I understand you want to be right. My wife doesn't agree with your view of the world. We had the same bad user experience in the Macan EV on the brand new Mercedes Benz charging network with the most modern Alpitronic chargers. The problem is the user experience with the Porsche Macan EV for our intended use case of it. So, we won't use it for that use case any more.

Therefore, you missed on assertion #3. I clearly said we won't use a replacement EV in the same way that we tried to use the Porsche Macan EV. In other words, we choose to buy an EV for a different use case ... as a cheap, disposable car only for quick around town trips that use AC charging and just for my wife and not me. So, we are choosing to limit our play time to very controlled cases. And sticking with ICE for others. Despite all of its plusses, we don't want to spend 2X to 3X more money over a cheap EV on replicating the Porsche Macan EV DC fast charging experience at any network. And we've clearly told the company what we want to see to come back.

 

[daveo4EV]

You're not really listening if you've read this entire thread and think it is 10-15 minutes of time spent. It is the lack of transparency into whether the car is working correctly coupled with many bad charging experiences and the lack of hope that this will improve because the poor communication / bad charging experiences happen at the flagship infrastructure installations that are brand new. In other words, it is the unpredictable user interface in this Porsche Macan EV that my wife strongly dislikes and turns her off from spending $119k to replace it or $150k+ to buy a Cayenne EV with the same problems.

 

[daveo4EV]

Look, I understand you want to be right. My wife doesn't agree with your view of the world. We had the same bad user experience in the Macan EV on the brand new Mercedes Benz charging network with the most modern Alpitronic chargers. The problem is the user experience with the Porsche Macan EV for our intended use case of it. So, we won't use it for that use case any more.

Therefore, you missed on assertion #3. I clearly said we won't use a replacement EV in the same way that we tried to use the Porsche Macan EV. In other words, we choose to buy an EV for a different use case ... as a cheap, disposable car only for quick around town trips that use AC charging and just for my wife and not me. So, we are choosing to limit our play time to very controlled cases. And sticking with ICE for others. Despite all of its plusses, we don't want to spend 2X to 3X more money over a cheap EV on replicating the Porsche Macan EV DC fast charging experience at any network. And we've clearly told the company what we want to see to come back.

so you're going to avoid CCS network entirely - and get a crappy EV for around town - got it!

I wish you luck.

baby meet bath water - but you do you.

 

[SteveInKirkland]

will your wife enjoy a slow 35 kW charging session in an EV that clearly shows it's not the car?

"knowing" its' the charger you're using that is slow (not the car) will not change teh outcome - and other EV's can't charge as fast as the Porsche when the charging network is in fact operational…

so your solution is:

• don't buy a Porsche because it doesn't show you why a charging session is slow (hint it's the charger not the car 99.9% of the time)
• purchase another EV which has a slower ideal curve - so it will never charge as fast as the Porsche can charge when conditions are right
• but you and your wife will be thrilled with the new EV when it clearly shows you that the 35 kW charge rate is a result of a power limited charging stall/network and not the car or it's battery …

I recommend the Toyota BRZ4 - it has excellent diagnostics and a very very slow charging rates - it will always meet expectations…none of that nasty fast charging curve for it - it will tootle along at 50 kW max charging speed for most of the charging session until it drops below 20 kW for the last 20%…and you won't need any diagnostics because it never charges fast enough to tax any of the North American charging networks.

https://www.macanevowners.com/forum/threads/we-have-the-best-ev-found-this-lying-in-the-parking-lot….21948/

She will never drive the car more than 50 miles from her home and it will actually Level 2 charge at a faster miles / minute in our garage than a North American 40 amp limited Macan EV.

Get a grip, man!

 

[daveo4EV]

it is the unpredictable user interface in this Porsche Macan EV that my wife strongly dislikes and turns her off from spending $119k to replace it or $150k+ to buy a Cayenne EV with the same problems.

it's the network(s) not the interface - you are opting out of the CCS charging network - yes today that's the only solution.

it's not the car - it's that the network(s) are not delivering what is promised - you are correct the only solution is to not to attempt to use the CCS1 network cause it's entirely unpredictable

I agree on that point 100% - but it's not the car's interface that is the problem…

 

[SteveInKirkland]

it's the network(s) not the interface - you are opting out of the CCS charging network - yes today that's the only solution.

it's not the car - it's that the network(s) are not delivering what is promised - you are correct the only solution is to not to attempt to use the CCS1 network cause it's entirely unpredictable

I agree on that point 100% - but it's not the car's interface that is the problem…

Again, we disagree. The stress of not being able to understand what is happening is overwhelming for her and she doesn't want to experience it while 1000 miles away from home. It is the car.

 

[daveo4EV]

Again, we disagree. The stress of not being able to understand what is happening is overwhelming for her and she doesn't want to experience it while 1000 miles away from home. It is the car.

wow. you bought the wrong product - I suggest you get rid of it today and please don't buy another EV…

I'd recommend a Hybrid - it's a much better product for your situation and will still handle most of your driving with "EV miles" and charge at home - road trips you simply use gas.

in the mean time you can simply suggest this:

"it's not the car - it never was the car - it will never be the car - it's the charing network site" - which again is where we started.

and yes because of this often times (most of the time) the Macan's potential charging curve can not be realized…because of limits in the North American charging infrastructure.

I'll stand by my assertion that in car diagnostics showing that it's the network (EA, Mercedes, ChargePoint, EVGo, Tesla, Rivian, etc) is not going to make you feel better about a 57 kW max charging rate when you plug in your 270 kW capable EV - but we'll disagree on that forever…

the real issue here is the North American CCS charging network is a crap shoot and yes 100% it does NOT deliver reliable or predicable outcomes! That's an indisputable fact and if you can't tolerate that the only solution is not to play. We both agree on that.

 

[daveo4EV]

EA and it's sh*tty network has done more lasting harm to EV adoption in North America than any other entity…I'm sure of it.

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