[FAQ] - North America - NEMA 14-50 vs. 6-50 - new EV owner garage setup…

[daveo4EV]

This topic comes up occasionally and is a source of confusion for many new EV/Hybrid owners. My goal with this FAQ is to cover the difference between NEMA 14-50 and 6-50 and allay any fears one might have about making this choice.

Question: Is there any Functional difference between installing a NEMA 14-50 and 6-50 outlet?
Answer: if the sole purpose of this outlet is for EV charging then there is no functional difference. Both outlets are North American standard(s) for a 240V/50 amp circuit. In both cases an appropriate EVSE will charge an EV at 9.6 kW - or 240V @ 40 amps - the maximum possible electrical current for a plug-based device in North American. Charging "speed" is identical for NEMA 14-50 and 6-50 outlets - so honestly it's a coin toss as to which one you want.

Question: if there is no difference then why choose?
Answer: Multiple plug types exist for multiple reasons. There is a functional difference between NEMA 14-50 and 6-50 in that the 14-50 outlet has a 4th connector/blade for an electrical neutral wire. This neutral is 100% required if you wish to use one of the 240V "legs" of the socket for 120V device/outlet. This is why NEMA 14-50 is used by RV's for traveling. The campground NEMA 14-50 outlets can provide an RV with 50 amps of both 240V/120V power. The RV are typically setup for the 240V portion of the outlet powering like an AC unit/Oven in the RV, and the 120V portal of the NEMA 14-50 providing normal 120V North American household outlets for TV's, computers, and Microwave, Toasters etc…. North American EVSE's do not use or require an electrical neutral - so they can interoperate with a NEMA 14-50 outlet or NEMA 6-50 outlet.

99.9% of the EVSE's in North American do not use/require the 4th electrical Neutral wire - so they have a 4 blade "plug" - but in most/all/many cases the 4th neutral blade isn't even wires up inside the cable - the 4th blade is inert/un-connected - it's simply there for physical compatibility with the NEMA 14-50 socket - in fact if you inspect the NEMA 14-50 PMC+/PMCC power supply cable - the end that plugs into the PMC+/PMCC unit you can clear see there is no actual wire/connection inside the plug/connector for the neutral - North American EVSE's only require/use 2xhots, 1 ground - any 4 wire/plug/connector they provide are purely for connivence/compability but not actual used electrically while charging an EV.

Further Note - the two 240V/L2 AC charging standard plugs (NACS/J-1772) also have no requirement or accommodation for an electrical neutral. There are 5 electrical connections inside a NACS/J-1772 EV plug connector - 2 high voltage, 2 low voltage communication, 1 electrical ground - if there was a need for an electrical neutral there would have to be a 6th pin/connector inside the plug design - and there is not - for 240V L2 charging there is no actual method/mechanism to provide an electrical neutral to the vehicle itself - so the 4th wire is 100% unused in North American EV charging electronics/design/specification. see here for gory details

Question: If there is no difference then why would an EVSE come with one plug or the other?
Answer: Ease of use. If you want your customer purchase a vehicle from you and when they get home simply plug-in to charge - it's important to provide an EVSE that is most likely "compatible" with exiting plugs the customers are likely to have. If you have to 'guess' what type of plug people have, I have to say it's more likely to find an existing NEMA 14-50 socket in someone's home vs. a 6-50 outlet. But it's purely a probability guess to get with NEMA 14-50 as a default choice. Early EV vendors provide a NEMA 14-50 for reasons listed above, but their choice further reinforced the default choice of NEMA 14-50 - such that as other vendors entered the EV market NEMA 14-50 was the best "default" choice because other EV's also used NEMA 14-50 - the whole thing was/is a self reinforcing virtuous cycle - and it's still the case today that there are more NEMA 14-50 sockets "in the wild" so it's still a great choice - but it was a guess by the early guys that became a more reasonable guess over time.

Question: if NEMA 14-50 was so dominant a option then why NEMA 6-50
Answer: NEMA 14-50 was the majority, but not the entirety of 240V/50 amp circuit landscape in North America. There is a small but significant "installed" based of NEMA 6-50 (and to a lesser extent 10-50) outlets. A common location for NEMA 6-50 outlet is actually auto and truck mechanic's shops since NEMA 6-50 is used for industrial arc-welders, and in a industry/home setting for oven/kilns - so while there are more NEMA 14-50 sockets given their usage by RV/Motorhomes/Campers - NEMA 6-50 was common enough for 240V industrial equipment - you know the stuff for which compatibility with 120V isn't a consideration. Given that both exist in sufficient quantities EVSE vendors tend to offer both 14-50 and 6-50 support and both are equally good choices for 9.6 kW charge rate.

think about this for a moment and remember it when you read later about using high quality copper wire and commercial grade industrial sockets - your new EV will be pulling the same amount of power needed for an industrial arc-welder - and it will continuously pull this amount of power until you reach you set charge level - if your EV is near empty when you plug it in - you're pulling arc-welder amounts of power for 6-12 hours continuously until the battery is "full" - quality materials are required to avoid problems.

Question: I own an RV and often park it at home but I also want to get an EVSE outlet - which should I choose?
Answer: Most likely the NEMA 14-50 if the socket is to be "dual purpose". If the socket is going to be used for both EV charging and RV power "hook up" then NEMA 14-50 is probably the better choice since a Motorhome/RV "requires" a NEMA 14-50

Question: If NEMA 14-50 is more "flexible" (i.e. having the neutral) why would I consider a NEMA 6-50 outlet?
Answer: NEMA 14-50 outlets require 4 wires (2 hots, 1 Neutral, 1 ground). NEMA 6-50 require 3 wires (2 hots, 1 ground). With the price of thick gauge high-quality copper wire, depending on the distance/length of your wire run for your EV charging NEMA socket from the breaker there could be actual real and significant savings in terms of materials cost for your EVSE circuit installation in terms of pulling 3 wires vs. 4 wires. Consult your electrician as to actual potential savings.

Question: If I get a NEMA 6-50 socket installed and later on want to change to a "hard wired" wall mounted EVSE is there a problem if I'm missing the 4th (electrical neutral) wire?
Answer: As of the date of this posting I'm unaware of any hardwired EVSE's that require an electrical neutral. Of the top 5 choices (Tesla Universal, Charge Point Flex, Porsche Wall Charger, Wallbox, Enphase/Clippercreek) their hardwired EVSE's all only require 3 wires. If you had pulled a 4th wire (electrical neutral) it would simply be unused by the EVSE and you'd simply put a wire cap on it and push it aside in the installation.

Question: Wow this is super confusing if there is no difference and I don't own an RV why would I care?
Answer: The decision about which plug to source for your EVSE (it's a $0 choice at order time w/Porsche) comes down to "compatibility". If you already have a NEMA 14-50 installed, then clearly the simplest choice is NEMA 14-50. If you already have a 6-50 socket installed then get a NEMA 6-50 power supply cable with your EVSE. For purposed of at home charging overnight the decision does not matter. You simple purchase/source/provision what ever type of socket you already have or will have installed.

Question: If I don't care what type of plug I have for home charging, then why would I ever care?
Answer: This is where there is a main difference between NEMA 14-50 and 6-50. The main reason you might care is for when you are traveling away from home and wish to carry your EVSE with you (for a mobile EVSE). To understand why NEMA 14-50 became the "default" choice from most EV vendors for their mobile EVSE it comes down to "installed" based of existing 240V/50 amp outlets in all of North America. For home use the socket type does not matter, because you simply match your EVSE to your socket. It only for travel that you might care. When you are away from home with your shiny new EV and your Mobile EVSE you are far more likely to encounter a NEMA 14-50 socket in the wild vs. 6-50. It's simply a matter of existing "installed" based - there are way way way more NEMA 14-50 outlets than 6-50 outlets. So it''s just easier to have a NEMA 14-50 EVSE which works at home with a NEMA 14-50 outlet and works away from home for outlets you encounter in your travels. This was more important in 2011-2015 than it is today. There are far more commercial EVSE (fast & slow) that you are likely to use vs. using a bare NEMA 14-50/6-50 outlet, so the need for one to have a "compatible" mobile EVSE with the "right" plug is greatly reduced. I'd venture that unless you have a specific location in mind (a family/friends cabin on the lake for example) you're more likely to need a spare tire these days vs. a mobile EVSE w/NEMA 14-50 outlet.

This is a bit like the old questions: if you were stranded on a desert island and could have only "One" song with you what song would that be? If I'm traveling with an EV in North America and I can have only one powersuppy cable with me, well then NEMA 14-50 is the clear choice because there are more NEMA 14-50 sockets than 6-50 sockets "in the wild". So if want your EVSE to "just" work most of the time your best bet is a NEMA 14-50. But if you're charging at home and only using "other peoples" chargers when away from home the NEMA plug choice honestly does not matter.

​

Question: if my EVSE is not mobile which should I get?
Answer: Do what ever is cheapest/easiest for you. Non-mobile EVSE's can be purchased with NEMA 14-50, 6-50, or hardwired. If it's a wall mounted EVSE it honestly does not matter which one you get. If you're installing "new" I'd recommend a quality 60 amp "hardwired" unit vs. any 50 amp plug based unit. If you already have either a NEMA 14-50/6-50 outlet then obviously choosing an EVSE for your existing plug is the path of least resistance and cost.

Question: If get a 6-50 plug for home to save myself some how do I use NEMA 14-50 outlets when I'm traveling?
Answer: Most (nearly all) mobile EVSE's allow you to purchase/swap additional NEMA plug outlet cables. Porsche's own mobile EVSE has swappable power supply cables for different types of NEMA outlets as do most non-porsche alternatives. In addition to directly supporting swappable cables there are affordable adapters for various NEMA plugs as well that you can easily purchase and carry with you. The whole issue of road tripping an EV and having "maximum" away from home power to charge any place, any time, any where, any NEMA socket is a whole rabbit hole that is well covered by this existing thread. For the most part in 2024 and beyond the need to carry your own mobile EVSE is greatly diminished and utilization when out in the wild will be very very low vs. just using someone else's commercial EVSE that is already installed. But rest assured your home choice of a NEMA 6-50 vs. 14-50 outlet will not "lock" you in, there are easy and affordable options to allow you to charge when away from home.

Question: I'm new to the EV world and this is my first EV charging setup, what should I do?
Answer: I can't speak to your budget or goals, but a good/excellent home charging setup is one of life's little joys in EV ownership. I'd worry less about the mobile charging aspect and more about the convenience of home charging. A good solid and well installed hardwired unit on the biggest AMP circuit you can afford will be the best path forward. Should you need a mobile EVSE for traveling away from home you can always engage in that later and get what you need for away from home charging. My prediction is you won't need a mobile EVSE very often and instead will use other people's EV chargers and in particular FastDC charging like Electrify American, Superchargers, EvGo, ChargePoint.

Question: Why would I get a NEMA 6-50 outlet?
Answer: You may save significant money on your install materials cost by pulling only 3 wires vs. 4 wires - consult your electrician for potential actual savings.

Question: My wire run is fairly short? should I still get a NEMA 6-50 outlet?
Answer: NEMA 14-50 is "more" flexible in that it will work for both EVSE's and potentially an RV - if there is no significant difference in cost I still prefer the NEMA 14-50 outlet as the more "universal" choice. But there is no functional difference for purposes of EV charging.

Question: Why not just hardwire?
Answer: Excellent question and these days I'm trending towards hardwired EVSE's and ignoring the plug-based mobile EVSE's all together. Hardwired EVSE also give you greater freedom to get an EVSE that can charge your eV faster than the limited of 50 amp mobile EVSEs. There is no problem getting a hardwired EVSE and simply using that, but most people wish to avoid the additional cost if their EV purchase has an included mobile EVSE. That being said my recommendation is simply avoid the mobile EVSE and simply get a high quality wall mounted EVSE hardwired on a 60/80/100 amp circuit if possible and you'll be set for current and future needs. You can tuck the mobile EVSE away for when you sell/trade the car, or carry it with you for your travels - although I doubt you'll use it very often.

Question: I'm now super confused and this thread has done nothing to clarify anything for me - what should I do?
Answer: You can ignore all of this and simply follow the EV charging instructions from the dealer/vendor that sold you your EV. This thread was an attempt to offer insight and some background, if I have failed my apologies. For the most part following vendor/dealer instructions will be fine and you don't need to understand any of this. However a little knowledge is sometimes useful and if you understand what's discussed in this thread you may be able to plan your home charging and mobile charging setup with an eye for the future (this is your first EV not your last EV) and avoid doing the whole "let's setup my garage for my new EV" multiple times. A little knowledge, planning and your EVSE home charging setup can be a do it once and never do it again affair - even as you change EV's.

Question: I plan to get a NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 socket, what should I ask my electrician?
Answer: 50/40 amp charger @ 240V/50 amps is no joke in terms of power, heat, and stress. The highest quality components should be required/demanded. CopperWire (over-spec if possible, if building code calls for 8 gauge, you can request 4 or 6 gauge wire) and the highest quality commercial outlet - which is the Hubble Commercial grade outlets - don't believe me then believe Porsche at this document. It can take 8-11 hours to charge a Macan from empty - that is a lot of power and a lot of thermal energy from charging - don't wimp out on your home charging install - that's the last place you want to cut corners.

Question: I've read all this and still don't know what to do.
Answer: Get a Hubble NEMA 14-50 installed and you'll be fine - you can ignore this entire post.

Question: I have an existing NEMA 14-50/6-50 socket - do I need to do anything?
Answer: Yes you need to verify it's a commercial grade/industrial socket like the Hubble (or exactly the Hubble). If it's not industrial/commercial grade it is highly recommended you swap the existing plug for one of the high quality industrial alternative sockets that Porsche (and the rest of the EV industry) recommend/require. 14 year old dusty $12 Leviton NEMA 14-50 sockets from Home Depot are not what you want charging your $120k Macan EV Turbo over night for 8-9 hours.

------------------------
I'll add more Q/A when I think of it or requested - but that's it for now.

for home charging recommendations I recommend the following existing Taycan thread for new Macan EV owners…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...uide-to-the-porsche-evse-pmc-pmcc-pwcc.13886/
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...my-taycan-charge-as-fast-as-i-want-it-to.779/
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/us-home-charging-recommendation-this-is-as-simple-as-i-can-make-it…honestly-bare-bones-least-amount-of-text….11745/
https://www.youtube.com/@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney

 

[daveo4EV]

for reference the Hubble NEMA 14-50 outlet…demand the best - accept no alternatives from your electrician.

links below are provide as reference _ONLY_ and give you a place to start and see first hand what this product looks like - I'm not recommend where/how you purchase these units and most people just make sure your electrician installs this unit and it doesn't matter where your electrician gets it from - but again the link below is just for your personal reference and proof of existence.

https://www.amazon.com/Hubbell-HBL9450A-Wiring-Grounding-Receptacle/dp/B0137HMGGS/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1JWJFYSY9AGR3&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.qIi4W2vsM_Y6bYs6QyQ3bkSN0qPLcFDJDh96ZWSBH0eIon469gTBhoUlAvibXsaMHhh3zPyRV6Te8cesivBqmj41kohvn44wCBOoSyCTn0SYYzgfJbZRVgFPIclNHYTvvKBL7UGpZvr2BKWpN9fWVlPSeVV99H93zUmRVDODCA75z_aYcHeUA5sCHNsi2WCUazYHhl3BE4zrqYVc58Kd4ZmoyN7NCRhfdB66zUdr1Ix1twBXzjQuW3D3iae2nrfuUID-0czD6APHGpgGJ1jruwQnQs3c2fwdLAWgQTgsmiA.A_6Mn4R6tjRMdaJNLuZMOQMkfhv1mTIH3Q934nhoRl8&dib_tag=se&keywords=hubble+NEMA+14-50+outlet&qid=1721745369&sprefix=hubble+nema+14-50+outle,aps,151&sr=8-1

 

[daveo4EV]

for reference the Hubble NEMA 6-50 outlet…demand the best - accept no alternatives from your electrician.

links below are provide as reference _ONLY_ and give you a place to start and see first hand what this product looks like - I'm not recommend where/how you purchase these units and most people just make sure your electrician installs this unit and it doesn't matter where your electrician gets it from - but again the link below is just for your personal reference and proof of existence.

https://www.grainger.com/product/5Z...W1KtPZEeTr8qskvc3IBoCOogQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[tmrqs]

Great write up, thanks!

 

[daveo4EV]

alternative supply cables from Porsche for the PMC+/PMCC to "adapt" it to other NEMA sockets…

240V/40 amp (50 amp breaker) choices - charge rate 9.6 kW

• NEMA 14-50 - https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/skuhybg2nema1450.html - $285
• NEMA 6-50 - https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/skuhybg2nema650.html - $285

240V/24 amp (30 amp breaker) choices - charge rate 5.7 kW

• NEMA 14-30 - https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/skuhybg2nema1430.html - $285
• NEMA 6-30 - missing URL - I know Porsche offered this at one time - Suncoast may not have it listed on their site or Porsche discontinued it - check with you local deal if you really really want a NEMA 6-30 power supply cable.

the NEMA 14-30/6-30 power supply cables are for "electric dryer/water-heater" outlets and will charge at 5.7 kW - or 240V@24 amps on a 30 amp circuit - these choices are "ok" but not great as a home install choice, you should really do one of the 50 amp circuits if you can for the faster charge rate. I would only do a 30 amp "install" for an EVSE if the cost to upgrade my existing home's electrical panel to handle a 50 amp circuit is really really expensive. In my mind the main reason for using NEMA xx-30 cables is for compatibility with 2nd homes, friends/family visits, or cabins on the lake where you simply don't have the option of NEMA xx-50 outlet.

If your home can handle a 50 amp circuit, get the 50 amp circuit (better if you can do a 60 amp hardwired circuit for a wall mounted EVSE) - only do the 30 amp route if you have no choice, or require the compatibility, or want it for "travel" away from home.

a full charge for a Macan EV on a 30 amp circuit at 24 amps (5.7 kW) would be approximately 20-22 hours if your starting from less than 10% - so plan accordingly if a 30 amp charge session is part of your Tavel plans.

the "choice" of which NEMA cable your included Porsche PMC+/PMCC EVSE comes with should be a $0 option at order time with your dealer - purchasing one after the fact is no problem and easy to swap them - but is $285

the power supply cable portion of the Porsche mobile EVSE (PMC+/PMCC) is modular and designed to be easily swappable - no dealer visit required - if want your PMC+/PMCC to have multiple types of NEMA plug adapters you can purchase these alternatives (listed in this posting) and swap as you need to no problem.

NOTE: you can almost buy an _ENTIRE_ non-Porsche mobile EVSE w/a range of NEMA adapters for $285 - if you're looking for an excellent and flexible mobile EVSE with a lot of NEMA plug adapters I might suggest the Porsche PMC+/PMCC and it's set of $285 adapter cables are not your best choice, but it certainly the most expensive choice.

traveling down the rabbit hole of how do I build an ultimate "kit" that can charge my Macan EV _ANYWHERE_ with _ANY_ NEMA socket - is fun, fascinating and most fruitless given the very very very low utilization in 2024 and beyond - you simply don't need this sort of kit anymore - but if you insist on throwing money at such an endeavor - this thread is for you - and can guide you to spend lots of money on a complete mobile NEMA EVSE kit that will allow you to charge your EV on virtually _ANY_ NEMA plug you might find/encounter or dig up in North America - again this is not for the faint of heart and 98.765% un-necessary for modern EV owners…but here is the link if you must have such a "kit"…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...and-useful-road-warrior-ev-charging-kit.6812/

 

[daveo4EV]

here is a cable that will easily and safely allow your NEMA 6-50 PMC+/PMCC to plug into a NEMA 14-50 outlet away from home…$25.99

note the $26 price vs. the $285 price for the Porsche cable that does the same thing.

this is just one example of such an adapter - there are many many choices once you go down this path

I'm posting this to demonstrate how choosing one NEMA socket or the other really does not lock one into any particular type of socket when traveling away from home with a mobile EVSE.

https://www.amazon.com/RVGUARD-Welder-Adapter-14-50P-Welding/dp/B088D8WGSN/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3DKRW8ULZZM8P&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.AYzSP4-WHiuJ_1V6c4p77yW_VGM1aHMKZfwsVUKUvdejXm4W5-Jk2USvONs_OczMhQ7Vr9obcpTR25j5Sh6JqcYcREfuV6EiycyVsGVFv4V2KhKA26XX2ZUcVylorqHgsHqHZo8seWv-aI5yjAq4wyPZ1tCOH0C0sxVJAuRQ1h4XSBeC4LPgiLHCmOXqa9hrNanRPFpk1WQ5TwcF-E5yQ5u1GNhcov94Qxi7vb98trevYtno68L1_qfvxx2Xg1azdMHQuXRWeMhgrKUcBmjC5-OuPF6raDgx9qEp1objk5g.a969zCFD-GysSRYjI-R5ioYNy2a4SjXblYgkpsjMpi4&dib_tag=se&keywords=nema+14-50+to+6-50+adapter&qid=1721782020&sprefix=nema+14-50+to+6-50+adapte,aps,158&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

 

[daveo4EV]

and the "other way" - this adatper allows you to plug your NEMA 14-50 EVSE into a NEMA 6-50 socket you encounter in the wild while traveling…$26.99 vs. $285 from Porsche.

https://www.amazon.com/CircleCord-1...-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

 

[daveo4EV]

bump now that Macan's are being delivered.

 

[shawn]

alternative supply cables from Porsche for the PMC+/PMCC to "adapt" it to other NEMA sockets…

240V/40 amp (50 amp breaker) choices - charge rate 9.6 kW

• NEMA 14-50 - https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/skuhybg2nema1450.html - $285
• NEMA 6-50 - https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/skuhybg2nema650.html - $285

240V/24 amp (30 amp breaker) choices - charge rate 5.7 kW

• NEMA 14-30 - https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/skuhybg2nema1430.html - $285
• NEMA 6-30 - missing URL - I know Porsche offered this at one time - Suncoast may not have it listed on their site or Porsche discontinued it - check with you local deal if you really really want a NEMA 6-30 power supply cable.

the NEMA 14-30/6-30 power supply cables are for "electric dryer/water-heater" outlets and will charge at 5.7 kW - or 240V@24 amps on a 30 amp circuit - these choices are "ok" but not great as a home install choice, you should really do one of the 50 amp circuits if you can for the faster charge rate. I would only do a 30 amp "install" for an EVSE if the cost to upgrade my existing home's electrical panel to handle a 50 amp circuit is really really expensive. In my mind the main reason for using NEMA xx-30 cables is for compatibility with 2nd homes, friends/family visits, or cabins on the lake where you simply don't have the option of NEMA xx-50 outlet.

If your home can handle a 50 amp circuit, get the 50 amp circuit (better if you can do a 60 amp hardwired circuit for a wall mounted EVSE) - only do the 30 amp route if you have no choice, or require the compatibility, or want it for "travel" away from home.

a full charge for a Macan EV on a 30 amp circuit at 24 amps (5.7 kW) would be approximately 20-22 hours if your starting from less than 10% - so plan accordingly if a 30 amp charge session is part of your Tavel plans.

the "choice" of which NEMA cable your included Porsche PMC+/PMCC EVSE comes with should be a $0 option at order time with your dealer - purchasing one after the fact is no problem and easy to swap them - but is $285

the power supply cable portion of the Porsche mobile EVSE (PMC+/PMCC) is modular and designed to be easily swappable - no dealer visit required - if want your PMC+/PMCC to have multiple types of NEMA plug adapters you can purchase these alternatives (listed in this posting) and swap as you need to no problem.

NOTE: you can almost buy an _ENTIRE_ non-Porsche mobile EVSE w/a range of NEMA adapters for $285 - if you're looking for an excellent and flexible mobile EVSE with a lot of NEMA plug adapters I might suggest the Porsche PMC+/PMCC and it's set of $285 adapter cables are not your best choice, but it certainly the most expensive choice.

traveling down the rabbit hole of how do I build an ultimate "kit" that can charge my Macan EV _ANYWHERE_ with _ANY_ NEMA socket - is fun, fascinating and most fruitless given the very very very low utilization in 2024 and beyond - you simply don't need this sort of kit anymore - but if you insist on throwing money at such an endeavor - this thread is for you - and can guide you to spend lots of money on a complete mobile NEMA EVSE kit that will allow you to charge your EV on virtually _ANY_ NEMA plug you might find/encounter or dig up in North America - again this is not for the faint of heart and 98.765% un-necessary for modern EV owners…but here is the link if you must have such a "kit"…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...and-useful-road-warrior-ev-charging-kit.6812/

This is the new one I got. Also got off the phone with the Electrician. He said they all need to pass the same standard but happy to swap out the one below with a Hubble if I wanted him to.

 

[daveo4EV]

This is the new one I got. Also got off the phone with the Electrician. He said they all need to pass the same standard but happy to swap out the one below with a Hubble if I wanted him to.

get the hubble - the NEMA sockets are not in fact all the same - and if you hold a hubble and others in your hand you can feel the difference - I had a small regurgitation when I read what your electrician told you about "all the sockets" - ummm no.

for one the hubble face plates are ceramic - that means they won't/can't melt like _ALL_ the plastic ones - passing the same standards does not mean they are manufactured the same…

this guy has a whole video on his youTube channel about cheap NEMA sockets…note the completely blown out NEMA socket in his hands in the poster frame for the video…



below is a picture of "lesser" NEMA socket from a taycan user after a year or so of charging…not a hubble socket - this is just one example of many…Tesla, Porsche, Audi, Rivian, Lucid, Polestar and other EV guys all call out hubble sockets by name for their EVSE installs in North America…

 

[shawn]

get the hubble - the NEMA sockets are not in fact all the same - and if you hold a hubble and others in your hand you can fell the difference - I had a small regurgitation when I read what your electrician told you about "all the sockets" - ummm no.

for one the hubble face plates are ceramic - that means they won't/can't melt like _ALL_ the plastic ones - passing the same standards does not mean they are manufactured the same…

this guy has a whole video on his youTube channel about cheap NEMA sockets…note the completely blown out NEMA socket in his hands in the poster frame for the video…



below is a picture of "lesser" NEMA socket from a taycan user after a year or so of charging…not a hubble socket - this is just one example of many…Tesla, Porsche, Audi, Rivian, Lucid, Polestar and other EV guys all call out hubble sockets by name for their EVSE installs in North America…

Ok I am convinced but I do not see ceramic in the data sheet of the Hubbell outlet that was linked so are there multiple quality grades of the Hubbell outlet. Please show me the one that has the ceramic material.

 

[daveo4EV]

Ok I am convinced but I do not see ceramic in the data sheet of the Hubbell outlet that was linked so are there multiple quality grades of the Hubbell outlet. Please show me the one that has the ceramic material.

Porsche lists the Hubble parts numbers they recommend/require in their technical document - trust them not me

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10222530-0001.pdf

Porsche recommends home owners only install industrial quality electrical NEMA receptacles and have the installation performed by qualified electricians in accordance with the National Electrical Code or applicable local equivalents.

For example, the following receptacles are recommended for their industrial quality and ability to handle high current with minimal electrical resistance for long periods of time:
• Hubbell HBL9450A = NEMA 14-50 Receptacle (4-wire)
• Hubbell HBL9367 = NEMA 6-50 Receptacle (3-wire)

A 50-amp branch circuit should use minimum 6 AWG, 90°C-rated copper wire for conductors supplying level 2 Porsche charging hardware plugged with a NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 supply cable. Receptacle terminal screws must be tightened to manufacturer specifications. The use of ferrules on the supply conductor wiring is recommended to further safeguard the circuit connection at the receptacle.

$51 from amazon for your $100k+ EV

https://www.amazon.com/Hubbell-HBL9450A-Wiring-Grounding-Receptacle/dp/B0137HMGGS/ref=sr_1_3?crid=56V52GA392TD&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.nAfPMd8ONoVRQDKFLFANZHDYmTpLF_i504Xjhfk3uEBfy77MedUbYePvMMFqGW5Km3AxkM3IwEJ9wSFYUm1O4kND610kaMBBR9iF53KtizASDOuLL0Zvx8Utd3abfjDI1D02DrRmEewEkkyJL_YeQwoQdlExYc8IF27MHdCP0439LHm3Chdbptmsz22xpOSvYib6M-PllRCgTOdc0sMC0tceUYrsNQtR968M0XcI6lD643TvU3yPP6GFrUVKPCW5cYdtQPKf3X_ebF8LDH3pH0lOWbscbcQMvQk7xwgl1dY.m0x1W09N1_PeiUdH-JZH63jn2XaMcLhYFEWseltZc1g&dib_tag=se&keywords=HBL9450A&qid=1732895578&sprefix=hbl9450a,aps,165&sr=8-3

 

[daveo4EV]

this is an FYI NOTE - not a recommendation - but it seems Leviton got the memo that their normal run of the mill $12 sockets were not cutting the mustard for EV charging - and they now have their own "take" on the industrial quality EV socket…

https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-Charging-Receptacle-Outlet-1450R/dp/B0CS8FFC1W/ref=sr_1_1?crid=21J2Y9YRZLIF3&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.w9swuyG-tX3HNDFQwYUeI4BCMnBvqgPJJugqPqYg8tMUqEmXMUA-SZxqVjP81n_9uz9U04vqUvWOs-WdHsIQvKXkZstUd7PgPG3ozOZQkhkz3C8aOwnhNLxRrFEvKgTmfh-RYyAJ5WWxhBYloc4n7Bjlra9Pyt3Kp5mAcw17zkwIKZh6lWV9C_O1ko6y2yayhR2ZnVnhYxALt09N9QK35mNaw7MHPUwWY1c8VjQsEtiNkSDwtpxLe8Y5Gcim2aj_JMl6FEWpNdiesLHKePpUxn8NTpUJaLJCTi97qsLwYVY.faX6FVzIkmkjzvSMvbkKK2eBqzlO6tbr2k13xJkt1BM&dib_tag=se&keywords=leviton+ev+outlet&qid=1732895870&sprefix=leviton+ev+outle,aps,194&sr=8-1

they even have a little EV icon stamped into the socket face - nice touch!!

again I'm not recommending this socket - I'm just noting it's existence - and the implied tacit admission that their other sockets may not be up to the task - personally I'm still a Hubble customer - but it's nice to see vendors stepping up and making sure we have appropriate tools/materials to support EV's.

About this item

• Designed specifically for plug-in EV charging applications
• Designed to sustain the necessary extended charge time and high frequency of insertions EV chargers require
• Perfect option for homeowners who prefer a plug-in EV charging units as opposed to a hardwire application
• Built of durable, high-impact nylon
• Pressure-wire terminal connections ensures full-contact with the conductors; terminals require 75 in lbs

I have no opinion on this item - so this is not a recommendation or a non-recommendation - I also have no reason to believe Leviton is lying or misrepresenting their product - and I'm willing to take their claims at face value - this is probably an excellent choice/alternative - so we most likley have two excellent choices for an EVSE quality NEMA socket!!! This is nothing but good news in my opinion - Hubble as noted, or this new Leviton entry - wonderful!!! Get the best quality parts for your garage and EVSE - don't skimp in this space - you now have two wonderful choices known/claimed to be specfically designed to handle charging your Taycan/Macan @ 9.6 kW for 10+ or more hours!!!

get the best, demand the best, install the best - get the proper parts/materials/equipment - this is not where one should strive to optimize for price on this particular component!

that's all I'm saying - and the sub-$20 plastic NEMA sockets that are generic and not specifically designed for industrial loads are not your friend and have no business charging your EV!

 

[shawn]

this is an FYI NOTE - not a recommendation - but it seems Leviton got the memo that their normal run of the mill $12 sockets were not cutting the mustard for EV charging - and they now have their own "take" on the industrial quality EV socket…

https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-Charging-Receptacle-Outlet-1450R/dp/B0CS8FFC1W/ref=sr_1_1?crid=21J2Y9YRZLIF3&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.w9swuyG-tX3HNDFQwYUeI4BCMnBvqgPJJugqPqYg8tMUqEmXMUA-SZxqVjP81n_9uz9U04vqUvWOs-WdHsIQvKXkZstUd7PgPG3ozOZQkhkz3C8aOwnhNLxRrFEvKgTmfh-RYyAJ5WWxhBYloc4n7Bjlra9Pyt3Kp5mAcw17zkwIKZh6lWV9C_O1ko6y2yayhR2ZnVnhYxALt09N9QK35mNaw7MHPUwWY1c8VjQsEtiNkSDwtpxLe8Y5Gcim2aj_JMl6FEWpNdiesLHKePpUxn8NTpUJaLJCTi97qsLwYVY.faX6FVzIkmkjzvSMvbkKK2eBqzlO6tbr2k13xJkt1BM&dib_tag=se&keywords=leviton+ev+outlet&qid=1732895870&sprefix=leviton+ev+outle,aps,194&sr=8-1

they even have a little EV icon stamped into the socket face - nice touch!!

again I'm not recommending this socket - I'm just noting it's existence - and the implied tacit admission that their other sockets may not be up to the task - personally I'm still a Hubble customer - but it's nice to see vendors stepping up and making sure we have appropriate tools/materials to support EV's.

Interesting

 

[daveo4EV]

Interesting

I agree - I found it whlie looking on amazon to give you @shawn a link for purchase ;-)

would not have found it if it was not for you!!!

I love this!! we're all learning as we go and new information is happening!!

I love this.

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