First videos of upcoming Macan EV

[andb]

Power lag/gap during hard acceleration as the car is shifting down. Some people like the gear shift feeling, as evidenced by some car makers actually patenting simulating gear shift by briefly cutting power to the EV electric motors at certain speeds. Personally, I prefer the instant, butter-smooth acceleration of EV's - no lag, no power gaps.

I think the gearbox in the Taycan improves efficiency on autobahn, I mean over 90mph and I wonder if the highway range of Macan EV is better.

 

[whitex]

Is front charging preferable or side? I think i would be ok with the rear.

Consistent location of charging ports has been an issue at public chargers as different cars need to park in different spots relative to the charger. There should be a standard, driver's side rear or passenger side front for DC charging, and front or rear for AC charging. If only one port, driver's side rear. Mercedes EQS got it wrong, passenger side rear - good location for filling up gas, worst horrible location for both AC and DC charging. It seems the Macan got it right, passenger side rear.

 

[rs38]

What’s wrong with the gearbox?

it adds quite unnecessary complexity and costs and friction and noise and does not bring the functionality and gain of a de-coupling. Check the Auto ETron SSP for details of the 2gearbox.
On the first glance it makes sense to doube the wheel torques "for free", but you can get the same result nowdays with latest gen of PSM and probably SiC based inverters.

 

[PNWTaycan4S]

"Huebschen" my eye...
The face is just.. incongruent - that wide band in the middle, carrying the headlights, is just tacked on. Not quite BMW-level weird, just .. unfinished.

A face only a mother could love. A bit too Kona for me. I'll take a Sport Turismo.

 

[Archimedes]

Power lag/gap during hard acceleration as the car is shifting down. Some people like the gear shift feeling, as evidenced by some car makers actually patenting simulating gear shift by briefly cutting power to the EV electric motors at certain speeds. Personally, I prefer the instant, butter-smooth acceleration of EV's - no lag, no power gaps.

You massively overstate this issue. The only time there is even a minimal lag is if you’re crawling in normal mode and you literally just ham fist the accelerator to the floor. It’s super easy to drive this car, rapidly, while barely even noticing the shifts. And the benefits of having a second gear at high speeds far outweighs any downside.

If you’re gonna lope around in normal mode, just learn to be smoother with your throttle inputs.

 

[SergeyIndy]

A face only a mother could love. A bit too Kona for me. I'll take a Sport Turismo.

Not so fast, you could imagine you are in this too. This split light thing spread like fire. I do not like it. I am not sure why they could not just keep all the Taycan looks.

View attachment 60731

 

[whitex]

You massively overstate this issue. The only time there is even a minimal lag is if you’re crawling in normal mode and you literally just ham fist the accelerator to the floor. It’s super easy to drive this car, rapidly, while barely even noticing the shifts. And the benefits of having a second gear at high speeds far outweighs any downside.

If you’re gonna lope around in normal mode, just learn to be smoother with your throttle inputs.

While you are correct about Normal mode, I figured out a while back to stop using it for this reason, so using mostly Sport and SportPlus. There is one drawback to this - in first gear at ~50mph (whcih happens to be my cruising speed on one of my common routes) the transmission makes an annoying high frequency noise. The shift power gap still happens occasionally though, when I need to mash the go pedal unexpectantly. As @rs38 stated, these are electric motors in which by nature have higher torque in low rpms, so there have other design methods to manage torque and speed. Model S Plaid has a higher max speed than a Taycan (200mph vs. 161mph) and yet they manage higher toque and higher horsepower. Given Macan's lack of transmission, sounds like Porsche is learning too.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

While you are correct about Normal mode, I figured out a while back to stop using it for this reason, so using mostly Sport and SportPlus. There is one drawback to this - in first gear at ~50mph (whcih happens to be my cruising speed on one of my common routes) the transmission makes an annoying high frequency noise. The shift power gap still happens occasionally though, when I need to mash the go pedal unexpectantly. As @rs38 stated, these are electric motors in which by nature have higher torque in low rpms, so there have other design methods to manage torque and speed. Model S Plaid has a higher max speed than a Taycan (200mph vs. 161mph) and yet they manage higher toque and higher horsepower. Given Macan's lack of transmission, sounds like Porsche is learning too.

That may be, though I'd still assume the top speed of the Macan will be less than that of the Taycan. Still, the suggestion that somehow the "SVP of transmissions" pre-ordained it is ridiculous; building something simple and complexifying it in the name of speed is the Porsche ethos, ingrained at all levels of its hierarchy. No need for SVP meddling.

 

[Archimedes]

While you are correct about Normal mode, I figured out a while back to stop using it for this reason, so using mostly Sport and SportPlus. There is one drawback to this - in first gear at ~50mph (whcih happens to be my cruising speed on one of my common routes) the transmission makes an annoying high frequency noise. The shift power gap still happens occasionally though, when I need to mash the go pedal unexpectantly. As @rs38 stated, these are electric motors in which by nature have higher torque in low rpms, so there have other design methods to manage torque and speed. Model S Plaid has a higher max speed than a Taycan (200mph vs. 161mph) and yet they manage higher toque and higher horsepower. Given Macan's lack of transmission, sounds like Porsche is learning too.

You’re telling me that there are times in Sport or Sport Plus mode when you are in second gear, and you need to mash the pedal to the floor? That would mean that you’re doing 50-85 mph and you get in situations that require smashing the pedal to the floor and triggering a downshift. If so, you’re doing it wrong…

I have aggressively accelerated from 50+ many times in my 4S and never once needed to downshift to get more acceleration than I needed. And when I have triggered the downshift, there was absolutely minimal lag. The only time there is ever even minimally noticeable lag is when you’re going slowly in second gear, say sub 20 mph, and you bury the loud pedal to the floor. Which again, is doing it wrong. Smoothly accelerating in second in a car with this much power will move the car faster than 95% of anything else on the road.

And if you really think the Taycan would be better with a single speed gearbox, go 70 mph, nail it so it downshifts and then hold throttle there. Imagine that’s your top gear. That would be the suckage.

 

[Jhenson29]

Torque is proportional to current. My guess is the battery current was the limiting factor and the 2-speed gearbox was required to get more torque at low speed. I could be wrong, but that’s been my guess. We’ll see where they go from here.

 

[whitex]

building something simple and complexifying it in the name of speed is the Porsche ethos, ingrained at all levels of its hierarchy.

So instead of KISS, Porsche uses KICS ethos? I'm imagining engineering office posters already - "What have you complexified today?" Perhaps Honda hired Porsche engineers for this this commercial:


In all seriousness, I get wanting to push the envelope for performance/speed, but doing it just to make it more complex seems pointless. In this case, it also costs performance, as any power gap/lag is going to hurt the car's performance. It will be interesting to see the performance numbers of the Macan, or 918 EV if it comes without a gearbox. If Porsche starts simulating gear shifting by cutting power to the motors on purpose, I'm out.

 

[whitex]

That would mean that you’re doing 50-85 mph and you get in situations that require smashing the pedal to the floor and triggering a downshift. If so, you’re doing it wrong…

Merging into high speed highway lanes, coming off the ramp and choosing to merge into the high speed lane rather than build up speed in the slow lane first. Yes, I could just cut-off people in the fast, lane, but I prefer to merge and accelerate quickly, so the car behind doesn't have to slow down. Personal preference. The downshift is also unpleasant.

And if you really think the Taycan would be better with a single speed gearbox, go 70 mph, nail it so it downshifts and then hold throttle there. Imagine that’s your top gear. That would be the suckage.

I never claimed you can just remove the gearbox or fix it to stay in the same gear and get good performance. The motors would have to be redesigned to deliver the torque and power with a single gear box. Since it has been done by the competition, it is possible.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

In all seriousness, I get wanting to push the envelope for performance/speed, but doing it just to make it more complex seems pointless. In this case, it also costs performance, as any power gap/lag is going to hurt the car's performance. It will be interesting to see the performance numbers of the Macan, or 918 EV if it comes without a gearbox. If Porsche starts simulating gear shifting by cutting power to the motors on purpose, I'm out.

I thought by now you'd knew when I'm shitposting tongue-in-cheek, though the complexification quip was half serious. There was a clear advantage to 2-gear transmissions on the Taycan, and the proof is that Tesla beat those numbers "the American way" (more power!). As in, at a given/fixed power level, meeting the perf requirements meant a 2-gear box - plain and simple.

FWIW, I have 0 issues with the transmission, and so maybe I should recuse myself from the thread.

Parting comment - I don't think Porsche will ever do something like this: "simulating gear shifting by cutting power to the motors on purpose". They invented the double-clutch transmission - and not back in the '80s, but back in the '60s. (Yes, that's right, it was a design that was passed over until Singer thought it'd give them an edge at Le Mans.) edit: the implication being that all they do is for speed, and there are very few sacred cows. For instance, the new Boxster Spyder is PDK-only, because they don't have a manual box that can take the hp/torque of the GT4 engine.

 

[whitex]

There was a clear advantage to 2-gear transmissions on the Taycan, and the proof is that Tesla beat those numbers "the American way" (more power!). As in, at a given/fixed power level, meeting the perf requirements meant a 2-gear box - plain and simple.

Agreed, but if speed and acceleration with high budget limits is the overarching goal, should you not consider power more power vs. less power and gear box? Why was less power with gear box chosen over more power? More power solution yielded better result in a Model S Plaid which accelerates faster and has higher top speed.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Agreed, but if speed and acceleration with high budget limits is the overarching goal, should you not consider power more power vs. less power and gear box? Why was less power with gear box chosen over more power? More power solution yielded better result in a Model S Plaid which accelerates faster and has higher top speed.

I suspect more power would have meant beefier motors, power electronics and so more weight, reduced efficiency or more battery etc. (If I’m not mistaken, the Tesla that beat the Taycan had/has 3 motors.) For all I know, more power might have meant a beefier single speed transmission, and so the weight gain of a 2-speed would have been negated right there. Also, traditionally Porsche has made more (performance) with less (power) than their competition. These are trivial/obvious speculations on my part, I am convinced they have evaluated all possible options, and the current solution was the optimal one. (Not because they’re “Porsche”, but because engineering tends to work that way.)

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