Would you consider a Hydrogen Fuel cell car?

[taycan_sportturismo]

Hydrogen is a fossil fuel play - pure and simple and keeps the fossil fuel industries business model completely intact - it simply move the emissions to the refinery away from the ICE engine - I don’t think we need 100% EV - we can keep fossil fuels “in play” but reduce their usage - and Hydrogen might be one way to do better in this space

but I’m not that interested in it for personal transportation - cargo and freight it might be better than an EV semi which I think it is a hard thing to pull off.

I agree. Hydrogen is better suited for heavy industry rather than personal transport. I can see it playing a big role in sectors like aviation as well.

 

[daveo4EV]

I like the idea of hydrogen because it consolidates the emission to single points where it may be easier to sequester/cleanup/adjust/fix - rather than 100’s of millions of tail pipes - so there is some advantage - and there is an actual need for high density portable chemical energy (like fossil fuels/hydrogen) - so it may play a role in the future and be some progress in that we can more easily “fix/clean-up” 1000’s of refineries vs. 100’s of millions of petrol engines - and once the hydrogen is produced it _IS_ emission free to consume - but not produce…

I see some future, but not sitting idle in traffic going to work.

 

[dflohr]

My brother has a H2 powered Hyundai Nexo in Southern California. Nice car, free hydrogen for lease duration. However, he is constantly concerned about finding a next refueling location that is online, open and has H2 on site. Lots more planning required than an EV even for local driving. Forget trips. Hyundai gives him about 3 weeks of rental car allowance annually in the lease.

Don't really see how this is a competitive iCE consumer vehicle replacement especially with the rapid growth of EV charging stations at least in the US.

 

[Kingske]

I also thought that there might be niches, but where are they?

1. Shipping? Should be a hybrid solution with batteries and synthetic fuels.
2. Airplane? Would you seriously considering sitting in a plain with a leaking tank full of explosive hydrogen?

Hindenburg Cruises

 

[charliemathilde]

I also thought that there might be niches, but where are they?

1. Shipping? Should be a hybrid solution with batteries and synthetic fuels.
2. Airplane? Would you seriously considering sitting in a plain with a leaking tank full of explosive hydrogen?

synthetic fuels are far far more expensive than hydrogen. We haven’t seen much progress towards electrifying large shipping vessels. Not saying it has to be hydrogen but there might be a useful niche here and in heavy industry

airplanes are challenging for battery volume and weight. and Let’s not kid ourselves about what happens when you leak jet fuel and it aerosolizes. Or frankly when you‘re sitting in an airplane and … anything. Gravity says hydrogen is kinda the least of your problems

 

[Mike in CA]

I learned something from this thread....

 

[Mr.Smith]

My brother has a H2 powered Hyundai Nexo in Southern California. Nice car, free hydrogen for lease duration. However, he is constantly concerned about finding a next refueling location that is online, open and has H2 on site. Lots more planning required than an EV even for local driving. Forget trips. Hyundai gives him about 3 weeks of rental car allowance annually in the lease.

Don't really see how this is a competitive iCE consumer vehicle replacement especially with the rapid growth of EV charging stations at least in the US.

Nexo is a good looking car. Car Manufacturers give free fueling cards those that lease.

Th fueling stations are not abundant, they do run out and i couldn't imagine not refueling at home.
It makes no sense drive to a destination to refuel.

Long distance is also a problem. You can see a huge gap in central California. Also forget about out of state travel.

As far as manufacturers, they are spending money on development of HFC, mainly on long haul trucking, BEV for last mile delivery as BEV will not for for long haul.
Toyota is still betting in on it which gives hope the technology.
Its no secret that Elon Musks thoughts and words mean absolutely nothing to me, especially when it comes to HFC

Green Hydrogen from wind and solar is the ideal form.

If Hyundai puts out a high performance machine they are developing and would give an incredible lease to help test it, I would be all for it.

PS I never drive behind a HFC car because the water exhaust always gets on my car

 

[W1NGE]

I think Hyundai is one of the most exciting auto manufacturers rights now.

When I saw this concept car that might be built as a hydrogen fuel cell, rumored to be 800hp, its something I would get.


In California the infrastructure is already there

Are you open to theHydrogen Fuel cell technology?

I think that horse has bolted given the limited adoption from both manufacturers and availability of gas stations. Most manufacturers have pulled us kicking and screaming into the electrical world and I suspect too late to deviate again.

I've seen many Hydrogen buses being towed away and we only have 1 station in Scotland (Aberdeen) - so infrastructure etc is a show stopper.

It has its place for sure but for targeted applications.

 

[feye]

As far as manufacturers, they are spending money on development of HFC, mainly on long haul trucking, BEV for last mile delivery as BEV will not for for long haul.

There was an interview with a guy from Mercedes/Actros truck division. He said, BEV for long haul trucks will be no problem, we just have to make the battery big enough to handle 4-5 hours, because then - legally in the EU - the driver has to have mandatory rest period which will be enough to recharge the battery. Infrastructure for it is in the works - want to invest half a billion Euros and build 1700 charging piles.

Toyota is still betting in on it which gives hope the technology.

No, they will go all in on BEV. They just hoped, that they can wait for solid state batteries, before going in to mass production - as did VW. Meanwhile, Mercedes announced over a year ago, that they gave up on H2 for cars.

Its no secret that Elon Musks thoughts and words mean absolutely nothing to me, especially when it comes to HFC

 

[feye]

synthetic fuels are far far more expensive than hydrogen. We haven’t seen much progress towards electrifying large shipping vessels. Not saying it has to be hydrogen but there might be a useful niche here and in heavy industry

airplanes are challenging for battery volume and weight. and Let’s not kid ourselves about what happens when you leak jet fuel and it aerosolizes. Or frankly when you‘re sitting in an airplane and … anything. Gravity says hydrogen is kinda the least of your problems

Synthetic fuels are how much more expensive than hydrogen? There has been a lot of research in H2 in the last 40 years, but way less in synthetic fuels.

I also cannot see batteries for intercontinental flights.

As for leaking jet fuel vs H2: At least we have 100 years experience with jet fuel, we have none (except Hindenburg) with H2.

 

[schad]

As for leaking jet fuel vs H2: At least we have 100 years experience with jet fuel, we have none (except Hindenburg) with H2.

Not true, the Challenger space shuttle was also fueled by hydrogen.

 

[daveo4EV]

pure H2 is enormously difficult to handle safely - even more volitile than gasoline or NG/Propane

H2 = invisible, oderless, and extremely volatile and has to be delivered in condensed liquified or highly pressureized gas to have meaningful energy content

what could possibly go wrong…

this sounds like a great idea for the general public to handle at scale because ya’know everyone already deals with gasoline with minimal spills, overfilling, and always follows gasoline safety protocols…

I see use for H2 in highly specific commercialized settings…

 

[XLR82XS]

No.

 

[Dee]

I'm glad to read there is knowledge here about the way hydrogen is produced and why hydrogen is a very bad idea.
More and more people are seeing it so that's a good thing.
I don't say electric is the solution but hydrogen sure isn't.

Another fact: hydrogen has a right for existence cuz it's used for fractioning crude oil.
So, once there is a "hydrogen economy", this same right for existence would become less cuz less crude oil, therefore making it even more expensive to produce...

Hydrogen is the most common element in the universe but here it comes: not here on earth!
We should just accept that.
Creating it will alway be more expensive than the benefits you get from it (if there were any)...
Why would you produce hydrogen with a lot of energy while you can drive on that same energy directly?
It just doesn't make sense.

Hydrogen is a dead end and slowly you see how manufacturers just quit putting money in it and switch to electric.
The hydrogen lobby is already 40 years old and that's for a good reason...
The battery lobby is only 10 years old and we already drive EVs in large numbers.
I do hope people who think hydrogen is the future finally come to their senses... it's just so logical, won't you agree? ??‍

 

[charliemathilde]

pure H2 is enormously difficult to handle safely - even more volitile than gasoline or NG/Propane

H2 = invisible, oderless, and extremely volatile and has to be delivered in condensed liquified or highly pressureized gas to have meaningful energy content

what could possibly go wrong…

this sounds like a great idea for the general public to handle at scale because ya’know everyone already deals with gasoline with minimal spills, overfilling, and always follows gasoline safety protocols…

I see use for H2 in highly specific commercialized settings…

you mean like this ?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-hydrogen-southkorea-insight-idUSKBN1W936A

nuked a soccer field sized chunk, killed 2, one was blasted away. Yeah, I want one of these in my neighborhood.