Battery Pack break-in

[4RS-1959]

Picked up new 4S this week after owning all Tesla’s for last 10 years. With Tesla from day one you’d just leave on charger when home and charge to 80% each day. They question I have is that the dealer advised that for the first 3-4 cycles that I break the battery in by draining the battery down to around 5% and then charge up to 80%. After doing this for 3-4 times I could then basically charge to 80% each day after daily driving. I can’t find this in the owners manual - is this everyone’s guidance and experience? Thanks and I’m loving the switch to the 4S!

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[alxman]

Picked up new 4S this week after owning all Tesla’s for last 10 years. With Tesla from day one you’d just leave on charger when home and charge to 80% each day. They question I have is that the dealer advised that for the first 3-4 cycles that I break the battery in by draining the battery down to around 5% and then charge up to 80%. After doing this for 3-4 times I could then basically charge to 80% each day after daily driving. I can’t find this in the owners manual - is this everyone’s guidance and experience? Thanks and I’m loving the switch to the 4S!

Haven’t heard about this. I picked my 4S and charged it as I pleased without any restrictions. I try to keep it between 50-80% charged, unless planning to take a trip. In which case I will charge it to 100%. EV batteries are very resilient and probably able to handle different charging protocols. Some experienced owners recommend discharging the battery to 5%, waiting a few hours, and fully recharging the battery every 5k miles to maximize the battery lifetime. In any case, the warranty covers the battery for 8 years so I wouldn’t worry too much.

 

[4RS-1959]

That’s been my experience as well. Hadn’t had the time to research the S4 battery pack specifics yet. Multiple folks at the dealership brought this to my attention and indicated that it would “maximize” the range of the battery. Additionally saying that I might not get the 288 mile range unless I follow this process. I know Apple used to recommend this process when you bought a new MacBook but never for an EV battery.

 

[alxman]

That’s been my experience as well. Hadn’t had the time to research the S4 battery pack specifics yet. Multiple folks at the dealership brought this to my attention and indicated that it would “maximize” the range of the battery. Additionally saying that I might not get the 288 mile range unless I follow this process. I know Apple used to recommend this process when you bought a new MacBook but never for an EV battery.

The staff at my Porsche dealership was very nice and attentive. However, my impression was that they were not very informed about the technical capabilities of the Macan EV. I learned a lot more from people in this forum and my own research.

 

[4RS-1959]

Same. I asked a lot of questions that got me puzzled looks. All good. Like I said went to owners manual and nothing there so I figured this forum would know. Thanks again!

 

[prime]

Picked up new 4S this week after owning all Tesla’s for last 10 years. With Tesla from day one you’d just leave on charger when home and charge to 80% each day. They question I have is that the dealer advised that for the first 3-4 cycles that I break the battery in by draining the battery down to around 5% and then charge up to 80%. After doing this for 3-4 times I could then basically charge to 80% each day after daily driving. I can’t find this in the owners manual - is this everyone’s guidance and experience? Thanks and I’m loving the switch to the 4S!

Battery is using some pretty standard chemistry. I’ve never heard of doing this on any electric vehicle and don’t think it’s necessary. Only the iron phosphate batteries may need some 0-100 occasionally for calibration. We don’t have that chemistry though.

 

[Saladin]

I'm expecting delivery of my Turbo around May/June and have been researching best practices to minimize degradation of battery capacity. I'm going with the suggestions of this video as it's the most scientific explanation I've found. While this doesn't specifically address how to break in a new battery, here are the main takeaways:

1. Don't leave your battery in a 100% SOC for long periods, especially in hot temperatures.

2. Don't wait until the battery is low to recharge unless necessary. Use a low SOC range (example: 50%-75%). Short, frequent charges are better than longer, less frequent charges.

3. Don't regularly charge to 100%.

I hope this helps.

 

[W1NGE]

Picked up new 4S this week after owning all Tesla’s for last 10 years. With Tesla from day one you’d just leave on charger when home and charge to 80% each day. They question I have is that the dealer advised that for the first 3-4 cycles that I break the battery in by draining the battery down to around 5% and then charge up to 80%. After doing this for 3-4 times I could then basically charge to 80% each day after daily driving. I can’t find this in the owners manual - is this everyone’s guidance and experience? Thanks and I’m loving the switch to the 4S!

Daily charging to 80% is the norm but breaking in is not. No need.

Regular ultrarapid charging is also not recommended.

 

[4RS-1959]

Well … this is interesting. I decided to try dealer recommendation yesterday. I drove the car around and brought home with 3 miles. Charged until 80% and it read 227 miles (284 @ 100%). Disconnected when charging was finished at 80% (80% set charge limit) to charge my wife’s car. This morning MyPorsche app is showing 82% at 260 miles (317 @ 100%). I know air/battery temp play a factor but nevertheless a rather large diff …

 

[alxman]

Well … this is interesting. I decided to try dealer recommendation yesterday. I drove the car around and brought home with 3 miles. Charged until 80% and it read 227 miles (284 @ 100%). Disconnected when charging was finished at 80% (80% set charge limit) to charge my wife’s car. This morning MyPorsche app is showing 82% at 260 miles (317 @ 100%). I know air/battery temp play a factor but nevertheless a rather large diff …

I’ve had that happen before, which got me excited. Unfortunately, the numbers went down almost immediately as I pulled out of my driveway. It made me realize that all those calculations are approximate or valid for that moment in time and subject to change as the car readjusts to the new variable conditions. For a while I used to monitor the consumption and range over and over. Now I just go on with my daily routine and drive as I please at the moment, sometimes following traffic as I listen to music and think about stuff, sometimes more aggressively if I’m in the mood. I’m just driving like I used to with my ICE car without worrying too much about the battery charge. I like driving and this car is a joy to drive!

 

[Awaz]

I’ve had that happen before, which got me excited. Unfortunately, the numbers went down almost immediately as I pulled out of my driveway.

Yes, I have experienced this too.

 

[daveo4EV]

Picked up new 4S this week after owning all Tesla’s for last 10 years. With Tesla from day one you’d just leave on charger when home and charge to 80% each day. They question I have is that the dealer advised that for the first 3-4 cycles that I break the battery in by draining the battery down to around 5% and then charge up to 80%. After doing this for 3-4 times I could then basically charge to 80% each day after daily driving. I can’t find this in the owners manual - is this everyone’s guidance and experience? Thanks and I’m loving the switch to the 4S!

dealer BS - clueless ICE service people

this sort of process is the one you would follow to "rebalance" the cells and work on getting the "maximum" SOH (State of Health) for the LiON Cells in balance with one another - if SOH is "wrong" the car's estimates of range will be wrong

this is not about maximizing range - it's more of a calibration exercise to address any potential inconsistencies in the BMS (Battery Management System) current notion of how much power is in the battery and which cells need to be topped off…running a battery close to it's empty state will illuminate "weak" cells and can be targeted by charging system for charging and adjustment…kinda like trimming the grass to see where the gophers are…

this should be un-necessary and pointless on a new battery - but can be helpful on "used" batteries to recalibrate the system.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/how-to-recalibrate-your-soh.21096/

this is an official porsche process for Taycan to get SOH recalibrated if there is concern it's current state is inaccurate…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...-piwis-tester-july-19-2024.20795/#post-318572

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2024/MC-11005773-0001.pdf

it's unclear to me if this process applies to Macan and it's different battery chemistry and/or different "holdback limits" in terms of 0% SOC customer facing vs. actual SOC state…

my impression is the dealer "knows" this sort of process exists (calibration and rebalancing for large capacity LiON batteries) - and has surmized it might be useful as a 'break-in' process???/

I'm highly dubious…highly highly dubious…

it's also worth noting LiON cell longevity is measured in terms of "expected" cycles - where a cycle is like 95% capacity down to 5% or less capacity - you can measure the expected longevity of a battery in terms of what the manufacturer of the cell anticipates their expected cycle count to be (500 to 4000 cycle LiON cells is a range of cycles for commercial LiON cells) - now daily use is rarely a full cycle - and therefore counts as a partial cycle - daily uses exact contribution to the overall "full" cycle count is ambiguous and hard to nail down in specific terms/impact…but partial cycles are generally accepted to have less impact that "full" cycles on battery's expected health from use…https://www.pcmag.com/news/how-long-do-ev-batteries-last-study-says-longer-than-you-think

doing this sort of SOH calibration/rebalancing is unambiguously a "full cycle" and therefore is a few cycle's right off the bat early in the battery pack's life cycle - YMMV has never been more "apt" and I'm not sure this juice is worth the squeeze…but I don't see a lot of harm - just un-necessary wear/tear for probably little if any ROI…

Porsche to date has not published the expected cycle count for their batteries (or their supplier contracts) - but their warranty can give us some insight as to Porsche's expectations - the assumption here is they have picked a warranty that gives them high confidence there will be a small number of failures that is statistically expected but "most" batteries will last at least the warranty period or beyond…in that warranty I find the 100,000 mile number to be most interesting, and also the "most direct" factor for estimating battery capacity/longevity…why?

well with 100,000 miles we can estimate the total number of kWh's required to drive that far using a simple notion of average miles/kWh…

if the Macan is a 2.5 miles/kWh vehicle - then kWh's required to drive 100,000 miles is 40,000 kWh's
if the Macxan is a 4 miles/kWh vehicle - then kWh's required to drive 100,000 miles is 25,000 kWh's

I would humbly suggest internal/confidential battery longevity estimates are in the 45,000-50,000 kWh's for battery life…with these sorts of engineered expectations Porsche can confidently offer 100,000 mile warranty on the battery knowing that most batteries won't be used that much…

from the 50,000 kWh number we can now assume/imply "cycle" count - knowing the battery has a 95 kWh usable capacity - so 50,000 kWh / 95 kWh = 526 full cycles to reach 100,000 miles driven…

this is well with in industry standard "cycle count" expectations for a LiON battery pack - common cycle counts for "mid-range" quality LiON cells is 1200-1600 expected cycle's…526 full cycle counts to drive 100,000 miles is easy "warranty" number to swallow…I would expect Porsche is contracting with their battery supplier to provide cells expected to tolerate at least 1000 cycle's as part of their normal life span…

put another say - if you assume partial cycle's daily (20% "impact" for daily use) and you provide 1000 cycle battery…with the occasionally 80-90% charge cycle (road trips) - and we assume these 20% daily cycle's 48 weeks/year (4 weeks car is not driven because travel/vacation/non-use) - and charging 5 day's a week (less use on weekends?)

1000 cycles at 20% use is 5000 daily partial charges
5000 charge cycles / (48 weeks * 5 days week per year) = ~20 years expected life span to reach the LiON cell's expected longevity…and that gives you the 8 year "expectation"…with enough buffer that you can provide a warranty and not expect to have to honor it very often…

750-2000 cycle LiON battery cell's easily cover 100,000 miles or 8 years for any sort of expected use of a personal vehicle and provide sufficient warranty buffer that Porsche is not going to be paying out warranty claims into bankruptcy due to pre-mature LiON cell failure.

100,000 miles driven @ average of 35 mph is also about 2900 hours of usage…

50,000 kwh @ 9.6 kW = 5200 hours of "home" charging…

 

[daveo4EV]

Picked up new 4S this week after owning all Tesla’s for last 10 years. With Tesla from day one you’d just leave on charger when home and charge to 80% each day. They question I have is that the dealer advised that for the first 3-4 cycles that I break the battery in by draining the battery down to around 5% and then charge up to 80%. After doing this for 3-4 times I could then basically charge to 80% each day after daily driving. I can’t find this in the owners manual - is this everyone’s guidance and experience? Thanks and I’m loving the switch to the 4S!

I'll stand by my strong opinions represented in this "FAQ" - https://www.macanevowners.com/forum/threads/faq-question-im-a-new-ev-macan-owner-im-stressed-about-the-battery….17629/

I see nothing here that is "new" - and the thread linked above addresses this issue…the 2023 posting the thread references is a sumary of thoughts/concepts that have been kicked around since at least 2021 on the rennlist Taycan forums…

to date no data has come to light that would refute the basic tenant of "relax and learn to love your LiON cells" - there really is nothing _YOU_ can do to the battery…

Porsche and it's battery management software is in control - you are not - even though you are plugging the car in - Porsche's in vehicle on board Battery-Management-System/Software (BMS) is doing all the heavy lifting - there is nothing _YOU_ can do to the battery - what ever is going to happen is going to happen - it's not anything you did!!!

 

[Great_Cookie]

Thanks for the post @daveo4EV… I tend to agree with your sentiments/comments.

Funnily, it seems a common-place practice to tell customers this (I’m in Malaysia). My SA on delivery had also mentioned that I should run the battery down to ~5% then AC charge (not fast-charge) to 80%. Like you I suspect it’s just to help calibrate the BMS, mainly to show effective range (but we all know that calculation is a ‘guesstimate’ based on a multitude of factors) rather than a ‘must-do’ process for battery ‘break-in’.

…At least I sincerely hope that’s not the case and Porsche isn’t sending a communique to its dealers worldwide in a ‘Battery-gate’ type of cover-up. (I’m pretty sure/hopeful it isn’t though).

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