[FAQ] - EV Chargers - common misconceptions - what is an EVSE?

[W1NGE]

here is a brief history of the Prosche/Audi EVSE's - it's not a quality product and remains problematic
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...uide-to-the-porsche-evse-pmc-pmcc-pwcc.13886/

if using a non-porsche EVSE would cause problems then why did Porsche add support for 1000's of nation wide ChargePoint chargers (non of which are porsche EVSE's)
https://www.macanevowners.com/forum...t-integration-to-myporsche-app-gain-me.20947/

this link is guidance for new owners about installing a home charger and which one to choose
https://www.macanevowners.com/forum...owner-what-home-charger-evse-do-i-want.18162/

Adapters are not that complex, they are infact "passive" electronic devices and are simply mapping one wire connector to another wire connector, but can not and do not "change" anything other than the physical shape of the connector…
https://www.macanevowners.com/forum...es-the-tesla-tap-work-with-my-macan-ev.18010/

Hi @daveo4EV - very helpful for the ill initiated / informed.

PMCC and PMC+ are rock solid outside NA - my PMCC has been faultless since new 2021 for example.and still going strong today.

Sponsored

 

[dgkhn]

it can be useful without having a condescending tone. All the unnecessary parts about a EVSE being not a charger come across as condescending.

English is a fluid language. The EVSE has become known as a charger by the general public. The whole an EVSE is not a charger crowd have lost.

And my EVSE is able to schedule times and monitor energy usage on top of all the “dumb” things it does. Sure the vehicle has to agree to accept the charge but it’s negotiated. The car doesn’t get the only say in the matter.

That makes it more than just a safety device.

Rob,

Potential accusations of condescension aside, I think the issue is not whether or not someone refers to an EVSE as a "charger," (and I believe you are correct that many folks who know the difference still call it a "charger.")

However, the fact that "charger" is a misnomer leads to people not understanding the EVSE/OBC dynamic, and for that matter, a significant difference between the AC charging dynamic and DC charging. Also, being aware of the history, there is an apparent odd confusion at Porsche in North America related to the capacity of the Macan (and Taycan before it) OBC (9.6 vs 11 kW).

I know for a fact that many people misunderstand the true primary function of an EVSE (me included once upon a time), and that misunderstanding might at times cause them to make suboptimal decisions related to buying or installing EVSE's.

I do not have to stick my neck out very far when I say that Dave was not being condescending; he was trying to be crystal clear so that people understand what that EVSE device actually does (especially that it does not typically self-adjust the power it supplies, but merely advertises how much power is available to be supplied (edit: meaning how much power that OBC can safely draw), and why therefore it is especially important to be sure that the AC supply circuit to which it is attached is correctly determined.)

I have to assume that as an EE, you would prefer clarity to opacity on this issue.

 

[pdealessandrini1930]

Over the years new EV owners inevitably end up with a series of questions - this FAQ is an attempt to demystify the EV Charger (EVSE)

this FAQ will lean heavily on my personal experience/knowledge of North American EV chargers - much of this applies in the rest of the world, but if you're not North American you may want to recheck my assertions for your particular region…

read on for a more detailed break down!

• 1st off what people think of as an EV charger is _NOT_ in fact a charger at all. The EV charger included with your Macan/Taycan is technically an EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment)device. It _DOES NOT_ charge your battery - it is simply a raw-external power supply (120V or 240V AC power supplied by your home/electrical grid).
  • The actual EV charger is an AC power to DC power converter "box" embedded in the vehicle. This box receives "raw AC power" from the EVSE - and converts it to DC power suitable for charging the battery - it's run by thousands of lines of software that control the power flowing into the battery and manages the charging process to Porsche's exact specifications.
  • The EVSE is frankly dumb as a rock in this design and sits "outside" the vehicle simply waiting to be told to "let power flow" - that's _ALL_ it does! It does NOTHING MORE than that!!
    • car says: "please may I have some power?"
    • EVSE says: "ok here ya go"
    • car says: "power stop now"
    • EVSE says: "ok power stopped"
• What does an EVSE do?
  • EVSE's are normally installed on a dedicated 240V residential circuit - ranging in AMPs from 20-100 amps. This yields a charging capacity of 4.8 kW to 19.2 kW of raw AC power depending on the wire gauge and circuit breaker size. An EVSE does a few simple things:
    • it's primary function is as an on/off safety switch - power flow control for safety
      • no power is flowing in the EV charging cord if it's not plugged into the vehicle - this is an EVSE _MAIN_ feature/function - if we didn't have this you could just use an Extension cord - but an extension cord is "always powered" and would electrocute you if it was raining and you dropped it in a puddle
    • the power flow control is controlled by the car - the onboard charger and associated software inside the vehicle "tells" the EVSE to allow power to flow or not-flow - so it's an on/off switch - but is 100% controlled by the onboard vehicle charging software
      • conceptually the EVSE can not "initiate" a charging session - the car _MUST_ request the power be allowed to flow by the EVSE
      • the EVSE is NOT Pushing power into the battery - the car is "pulling" power from the EVSE
      • the EVSE can NOT charge your car or start a charging session - only the car can allow the battery to charge - and the EVSE passively waits for the car to "request" power
    • the EVSE informs the vehicle as to it's configured capacity. The EVSE advertises its AMP capacity to the EV via a standard EV charging protocol. This capacity advertisement allows the EV to adjust its charging demand to avoid exceeding the EVSE's advertised capacity.
      • the car and the EVSE always "negotiate" teh charging rate. Your EV has a "max" AC charging rate (Macan is 9.6 kw in North America).
        • if you plug into a 3.6 kW EVSE - your Macan will only charge at 3.6 kW
        • if you plug into a 19.2 kW EVSE - your Macan will charge at it's "max" rate of 9.6 kW
      • the current capacity of a given EVSE can change dynamically during a charging session - this is supported by the charging protocol - so depending on circumstances your charge rate may not be constant for any given charging session if the EVSE is "adjust" power demands in real time
        • for example a 'solar-tied' EVSE may ramp it's max capacity up/down to "match" current solar production to avoid using more power than Solar is providing - well behaved EV's are expected to respect these adjustments and adapt in real time as the EVSE adjusts it's advertised maximium
• North American EVSE's (including the Porsche one) all conform to the SAE J-1772 EV charging standard.
  • all North American EV's support J-1772 EVSE's
  • this means _ANY_ J-1772 compliant EVSE can charge your Macan - it has to work that way!!
    • this is what allows you to use public chargers at the mall - they are all J-1772 EVSE's
  • Any J-1772 EVSE can charge any J-1772 EV
  • J-1772 EVSE's are not vendor/vehicle specific
  • even Tesla's home EVSE's are J-1772 EVSE's but have a non-J-1772 shaped connector/plug - but the protocol/standard is J-1772 - which is how/why a Tesla EVSE can charge your Macan
• EVSE's are more like a water-valve than water-filter. They are simply an 'on/off' safety device. They do not filter/manipulate the AC power that is flowing through them. This means that your EVSE does not change the power it's delivering to your car. It's the same "raw" AC power that is being fed to your home from your grid supplier.
• EVSE's are very similar to glorified GFI outlets - while they do not manipulate/change the power flow (or quality or characteristics) they do monitor the charging process for electrical faults. Their main "weapon" in the fact of electrical faults is to simply shut down and turn off the power flow.
  • AN EVSE may fail to charge an eV because the electrical circuit has an AC electrical problem or the car has an AC electrical problem. In the case of the EVSE detecting a fault with the AC circuit - it should simply fault to "no power flowing" and may or may not display a "fault" indicator.
• Power is only allowed to flow when the charging cord it actually connected to an EV - this is the EVSE's main function - it's for safety
• EVSE does not control "charging" your car - your car controls charging your car - it simply asks the external EVSE to turn of or off - opening and closing the circuit to allow power to flow
• The J-1772 protocol/standard isn't very smart. It was designed to be simple, easy and not very challenging for anyone to implement. Therefore there is very very limited "control" an EVSE can exert over your EV. Any "scheduling" an EVSE can do is therefore limited to what the J-1772 protocol/standard allows. which is not very much.
  • Primarily you're going to control your EV charging with what ever software/features your EV provides for charging - the EVSE not the brain or controller of the charging process - your EV controls everything.
• Some EVSE provide additional features - these features are beyond the J-1772 standard and have nothing to do with charging
  • scheduling
  • statistics
  • status
  • start/stop
  • sometimes these features will conflict with the car and confuse the car's on board charging hardware/software - leading to missed charging sessions or incomplete charging sessions
  • Author Opinion: the dumber/simpler EVSE's are the best EVSE's because they are the least likely to "argue" with the car about charging.
    • Enphase/Clippercreek make some of the dumbest EVSE's on the market - and because of that their compatibility and reliability is simple stellar - they "just work" and have an excellent reputation for quality and robustness.
• In North American "mobile" EVSE's are limited to 9.6 kW max charge rate - these are plug based EVSE's and normally small enough to unplug and take with you on a road trip. The maximum charge rate is limited by the maximum plug capacity in North America - which is NEMA 14-50/6-50 outlets - 50 amp outlets which provide a maximum power output of 9.6 kW
• Wallmounted or non-Mobile EVSE's (hardwired) can provide up to 19.2 kW of charging capacity - this is 100 amp breaker on a 240V circuit. Most residential homes in North America lack sufficient capacity for this level of EVSE. EVSE's on 60 amp or greater circuit size MUST be hardwired and can not be plug based due to building code regulations - this makes them "non-mobile".
  • but they are still a glorified on/off switch and simply provide "raw AC" power to the onboard charger in your Macan.
• Any standard compliant EVSE can charge any EV - there is _NO_ expectation of vendor specific EVSE's for certain EV's - this violates the J-1772 standard and would mean you could not use commercial public charging infrastructure when away from home.
  • if a given EVSE can not charge an EV there is either a bug/fault on the EVSE or EV - one of the two sides should "fix" the problem
  • there is no reason what so ever that an EV can not charge from any EVSE…
• J-1772 is the "basic" standard for North American EV charging - some EV's and some EVSE's implement standards beyond J-1772. Primarily these standards provide more "status information" back to the EVSE so it can display things like: battery %, estimated charge completion time, charging start time. I would characterize these enhancements as largely "status" related - but do not change the nature of raw AC power flowing to the vehicle. The J-1772 protocol lacks these basic status meta-data so some EVSE's and EV's have added features to their EV/eVSE to provide this charging meta-data
  • however all EV's and EVSE's must provide basic J-1772 support - so that when encounter an EVSE or EV that only supports basic J-1772 - both will interoperate
• NACS is a new plug shape/type - but still a J-1772 electrical protocol and service. Even when using a NACS EVSE your Macan is still working with the J-1772 EV charging standard - but is no longer using the physical J-1772 plug…
  • this is why adapters are no big deal.
• J-1772 is an AC charging standard - CCS(1 or 2) is the standard/protocol for DC fast charging and covers delivering raw DC power from 20-500 kW and voltages of 100-1000V volts - it's an entirely different animal but similar in nature to it being a reasonably "stupid/simple" protocol.
  • more can be learned here…https://driivz.com/blog/ev-charging-standards-and-protocols/
• there are protocols in other parts of the world for EV charging that while not exactly J-1772 are very very similar - these are ISO-xxxx protocol standards for EV charging. Most EV's shipping world wide have universal onboard EV chargers and the software for them knows how to speak all the EV charging protocols - and simply adapt to what ever protocol is required when they are plugged into an EVSE. Even though European Macan's use an ISO protocol for AC charging in Europe - I know for a fact unmodified euro-macaw's worked flawlessly in North America when euro-models were being tested in North America…
  • the cars are shipped from the factory with regional specific charging ports - but the onboard chargers and their software are "native world wide" and can handle anything…
• unlike $200 toys, or cell phone chargers, or notebook chargers - just because your EV is plugged into an EVSE does not mean it's "charging" - there is NO power following unless the car allows it - and most (all?) EV's I'm aware of do not continuously "draw" power from an EVSE
  • charging an eV from an EVSE is very much an on/off affair - there is no "trickle" charging or over charging of an EV battery just because you've left it plugged in.
  • therefore unlike your cellphone, toy, or laptop you're not continuously "pushing" electrons into the EV's battery - because the car does not operate that way.
    • The onboard charging hardware and software has a record of all the KWh's that have been input to the battery and output from teh battery. They constantly balance these two numbers - and only push power into the battery when they detect an outflow which they then balance with an inflow should power be available.
  • you can leave a car plugged in for weeks to an EVSE - and the EVSE may never actually charge the car because the car does not wake up and request power from the EVSE…
  • the EVSE does not charge your battery/car. The car charges itself using power from the external EVSE should power be available. The EVSE is a largely passive device - again like a water valve - that the car turns on and off.
• What is L1/L2/L3
  • these are legacy terms that have been used imprecisely over the years - but in early days would used to distinguish slower EVSE's from faster EVSE's
  • L1 routinely maps to 120V EV charging and normally tops out at 30 amps or about 3.6 kW - although 1.44 kW to 2 kW is the 95% most common L1 charging rates
  • L2 routinely maps to 240V EV charging - and histrorically ranged from 3.6 kW to 9.6 kW - and in about 2012 started encompassing 11 to 19.2 kW charge rates
  • L3 was anything more than L2, and has been imprecisely used for both AC and DC charging - and has no common usage or expectations beyond it's faster than L2…but how much faster and if it's even AC or DC power is all over the map…
• In terms of "power quality" one EVSE is not better than another EVSE - it's can't be. All EVSE's are simply "pass through" devices for what ever "raw" AC power they are being fed by your home/electrical grid connection. If something damages your battery it was not the EVSE - it was an AC power fault that happened on/in your home's electrical wiring or most likely was problem with the power being supplied "from the grid"…again think water valve vs. water filter…
  • an EVSE is simply a switch (on/off) not a filter/regulator.

that's all for now - I'll update this post/thread as I remember additional "facts" - but the items above should go a long ways toward demystifying what an EVSE actually is and what it can and can not do.

Questions are welcome! I'll do my best to answer them and so will other's on the forum.

Thank you so much!

Speechless!

The level of professional insight and details shared are simply spectacular and although I’m not a trained engineer nor electrician I’ve followed these issues over the years living both in the US and Europe with different standards.

Really appreciate the time you’ve invested in sharing this info for us all.

Respectfully. Paolo

 

[daveo4EV]

Hi @daveo4EV - very helpful for the ill initiated / informed.

PMCC and PMC+ are rock solid outside NA - my PMCC has been faultless since new 2021 for example.and still going strong today.

as always the PMC+/PMCC are way way better in their non-North American version…the North American problems and Porsche's inability to provide even basic customer support in the face of problems is well documented.

@W1NGE and I have a long history of mutual respect (I hope)…I always welcome their input.

 

[daveo4EV]

NOTE: I'm biased/morally "opposed" to EVSE's with a scheduling feature - it's not that I don't understand them - it's that the EVSE attempting to schedule the charge adds a layer of complexity beyond what the car is trying to achieve. In my experience (owning driving EV's since 2011) the EVSE and the car can end up arguing with each other and miss a charging window…

since EVSE's can not initiate a charging session (only the vehicle can do that) the only way an EVSE can "schedule" charging is to be "offline" during periods of time that you do not want the car to charge - and back online during the charging window - for this to work properly requires the car essentially be configured on the car's side to be in 'direct' charging mode - so that it charges when ever power is available…

essentially for the EVSE schedule feature to work - it has to cut off communication with the vehicle and look to teh vehicle as thought it's offline/unplugged - since the car sees "no plug" inserted with power - it can not initiate a charge and will not do so - this is effective and simple and easy to understand…

in my personal experience and watching other's I've helped "EV" over the years - sometimes the two parties end up working against each other and for what ever reason a charging window gets missed…

EVSE scheduling comes down to essentially just a timer - like XMAS tree lights - the EVSE "blinks off" during non-charging time windows, and blinks "on" during allowed charging windows - your car must be ready/willing to charge when the EVSE is "on"…

the simple fact I've witnessed people being confused by missed charing sessions - when they setup a schedule on the EVSE and then forget to disable scheduling (optimal charing time) on the EV itself - and the EVSE "blinks on" but because the car is running it's own schedule it doesn't allow a charging session to begin…

in rare cases the EVSE "coming and going" confuses the car and it will throw an error and wait for you to unplug the cable and replug it in to clear the error - but that problem is more on the car than the EVSE in this case, but not all car software and charging is robust or fault tolerant

30+ years in consumer focus software design has biased me against complexity and one aspect of complexity is when you can accomplish the same task two different ways - having both the EVSE schedule charging and the car scheduling charging is complexity and opens up the potential for missed expectations…

if using your EVSE to schedule charging works for you -more power to you and I"m thrilled it's working for you – my bias/advice is to keep the EVSE simple and easy - and use the car's built in charging capabilities as best you can - the EVSE has limited abilities when it comes to interacting with the vehicle - and at the end of the day the car and it's OBC and OBC software is the final orbiter of if a charging session will occur - so remove as many variables as possible to make sure it's always charged when you want it to be ready in the morning.

YMMV my $0.02

I love the statistics features of the more "complex" EVSE's and I also love EVSE's with an app to show status and monitor progress - but it's simple good to be aware none of those features are required and the dumbest EVSE with any EV will be fully functional for charging your EV overnight…

any "feature" beyond simple power delivery is Optional and not required, and some of the more complex features can lead to missed expectations if you don't also configure the car to be accepting of the EVSE's external behaviors…

I wouldn't let the presence or absence of an EVSE based scheduling feature make/break my EVSE purchasing decision…but I understand if that's how people want to manage things - just make sure you configure your EV to tolerate that method of charge scheduling.

 

[daveo4EV]

NOTE: I'm biased/morally "opposed" to EVSE's with a scheduling feature - it's not that I don't understand them - it's that the EVSE attempting to schedule the charge adds a layer of complexity beyond what the car is trying to achieve. In my experience (owning driving EV's since 2011) the EVSE and the car can end up arguing with each other and miss a charging window…

since EVSE's can not initiate a charging session (only the vehicle can do that) the only way an EVSE can "schedule" charging is to be "offline" during periods of time that you do not want the car to charge - and back online during the charging window - for this to work properly requires the car essentially be configured on the car's side to be in 'direct' charging mode - so that it charges when ever power is available…

essentially for the EVSE schedule feature to work - it has to cut off communication with the vehicle and look to teh vehicle as thought it's offline/unplugged - since the car sees "no plug" inserted with power - it can not initiate a charge and will not do so - this is effective and simple and easy to understand…

in my personal experience and watching other's I've helped "EV" over the years - sometimes the two parties end up working against each other and for what ever reason a charging window gets missed…

EVSE scheduling comes down to essentially just a timer - like XMAS tree lights - the EVSE "blinks off" during non-charging time windows, and blinks "on" during allowed charging windows - your car must be ready/willing to charge when the EVSE is "on"…

the simple fact I've witnessed people being confused by missed charing sessions - when they setup a schedule on the EVSE and then forget to disable scheduling (optimal charing time) on the EV itself - and the EVSE "blinks on" but because the car is running it's own schedule it doesn't allow a charging session to begin…

in rare cases the EVSE "coming and going" confuses the car and it will throw an error and wait for you to unplug the cable and replug it in to clear the error - but that problem is more on the car than the EVSE in this case, but not all car software and charging is robust or fault tolerant

30+ years in consumer focus software design has biased me against complexity and one aspect of complexity is when you can accomplish the same task two different ways - having both the EVSE schedule charging and the car scheduling charging is complexity and opens up the potential for missed expectations…

if using your EVSE to schedule charging works for you -more power to you and I"m thrilled it's working for you – my bias/advice is to keep the EVSE simple and easy - and use the car's built in charging capabilities as best you can - the EVSE has limited abilities when it comes to interacting with the vehicle - and at the end of the day the car and it's OBC and OBC software is the final orbiter of if a charging session will occur - so remove as many variables as possible to make sure it's always charged when you want it to be ready in the morning.

YMMV my $0.02

I love the statistics features of the more "complex" EVSE's and I also love EVSE's with an app to show status and monitor progress - but it's simple good to be aware none of those features are required and the dumbest EVSE with any EV will be fully functional for charging your EV overnight…

any "feature" beyond simple power delivery is Optional and not required, and some of the more complex features can lead to missed expectations if you don't also configure the car to be accepting of the EVSE's external behaviors…

I wouldn't let the presence or absence of an EVSE based scheduling feature make/break my EVSE purchasing decision…but I understand if that's how people want to manage things - just make sure you configure your EV to tolerate that method of charge scheduling.

there is one case in which EVSE based scheduling works better!!

Porsche has this annoying feature (at least it's annoying to me) that if you plug in any of their EV's (Macan and Taycan) they will always charge to 25% battery if they are below 25%

there is no way to defeat this feature, and the minimum charge to 25% ignore any/all "schedule or optimal time" settings - if your Porsche EV is below 25% - it will start to charge immediately regardless of the cost or schedule…

this can be expensive if you plug in your EV during peak rate tariffs…

an EVSE w/schedule nicely defeats this Porsche EV charging behavior - since the EVSE is "offline" during it's scheduled time (normally during peak billing rates) - the can NOT charge while the EVSE is offline but still plugged in…and this will force the Porsche eV to "wait" until the EVSE is back online before it's allowed to top off the battery to it's minimum % SOC…

this is a great use case for an EVSE w/it's own schedule if you're often times below 25% when you arrive home and don't want to pay maximum utility rates…

so it's all a matter of making an informed decision as to how to have your EVSE interoperate with your car's EV charging behavior.

 

[jwatte]

I agree -- it's not up to the car to have a full map of possible charging locations and which times I'd like to charge or not charge at those locations.
It makes much more sense for my wall box to say "between 4pm and 9pm between June and November the rate is high and the house is on batteries at that time, so don't charge then," and the car just gets the charge when appropriate.
The one annoyance with this setup is that the car keeps complaining that charging is "broken" during that time. Which, sure, in some sense, but if there's any smarts I would wish for in the car, it would be to know to not send that message...

 

[daveo4EV]

I am honestly very very happy with anyone making an "informed" decision about how to schedule their charging…

with this FAQ there should be enough information for everyone to make an "informed" decision about how they want to manage charging their EV that best fits their needs and circumstance

it's been my experience that most new EV owners given the EVSE too much 'credit/intelligence' - and once you understand that it's mostly a safety switch it much easier to then understand how and why things work the way they do - it's then also easy to understand how/why you might want to use the car's scheduling or the EVSE's scheduling - again making an informed decision and understanding the "interplay" between an external raw power source and an intelligent charger embedded in all EV's…

 

[Goldtrom]

The car doesn’t have enough information to properly schedule sessions, the wall charger does. It’s really that simple. Using the wall charger’s scheduling can save money, reduce grid dependence, etc.

Not many people are morally opposed to saving money/the earth.

 

[alxman]

I truly appreciate @daveo4EV’s willingness to educate and share his extensive EV experience with those of us who aren’t technical. It takes real time and effort, and it’s far easier to stay quiet or simply complain without doing the necessary research. I’ve learned far more from reading his posts than from reviewing the manual. He has a rare ability to explain concepts in simple terms while weaving in technical details that deepen our understanding of how the vehicle works — and spark our curiosity to learn more about EV technology. I’m deeply grateful!

 

[daveo4EV]

A common question/concern from EV owners is:

Question: If I don't get the Porsche Charger (sic. EVSE) will I still be able to use the myPorsche app to view status, start/stop charging, and edit the charging schedule?
Answer: Yes you'll still have all this because it never was the 'EVSE' doing this - it was always the car - never the EVSE.

But it's a reasonable assertion/assumption and I can see why people might be confused/concerned. Will I lose "integration" if I don't purchase an "all Porsche" setup.

Porsche _DOES_ support their networked EVSE products via the myPorsche app - but primarily the functionality is for EVSE configuration and status (charging statistical logs for example) and software updates. But only for "networked" EVSE's - which to my knowledge are the PMCC (Porsche Mobile Charger Connect) and the PWCC (Porsche Wall Charger Connect). If you own these EVSE's and you've networked them (either by Wifi or a PLC) you can "pair" the Porsche EVSE's with your Porsche login account, and then you can "see" the EVSE in the myPorsche app and see it's status, statistics and software updates, and control things like VIN pairing and other features via the my Porsche app. But it's a separate section in the app for the EVSE - and nothing to do with charging "the car" or the "car's charging schedule". It's purely status and EVSE related configuration/settings.

I previously operated two PMCC units and had them paired to myPorsche login and used to monitor them via the myPorsche app (or website until Porsche migrated to "all app only"). It was nice to have both the vehicle and EVSE information/configuration all in "one place". But the EVSE control was limited to status + configuration (max amps, software updates, security/pin, vin list, etc…) And the control of charging sessions and start/stop was always via controlling the vehicle, not the EVSE.

As noted some EVSE's have their own scheduling controls and other features. These non-Porsche EVSE's offer their own set of features, and typically you can control them via an on-device webportal or device associated "app". ChargePoint, Wallbox, Tesla and other EVSE all offer various levels of control/features for their specific EVSE's…

so again there is no reason one must use a Porsche EVSE with their North American Macan/Taycan - but there can be advantages in terms of how many different apps/websites you'll need to use to manage/configure your home EV charging system.

Personally while I appreciate the integration of an "all Porsche" system it's not necessary. And the PMC+/PUC that comes with Taycan/Macan is not a "networked" EVSE - only the PMCC or PWCC allow Wifi/Networking which is a requirement for the status/monitoring/configuration control via webstie/app…and once you're considering purchasing a separate EVSE beyond the one included with the vehicle - then I suggest you open your search beyond the Porsche offerings and make the best decision for your personal goals and setup.

my Personal setup is currently 3 x Tesla Universal Wall Chargers - networked and powershared - each TUWC can provide 60/48 amp max charge rate, but they are powershared to split the load dynamically for a shared 100/80 amp max charging circuit. This alllows me to have a single 100/80 amp circuit but charge up to 3 EV's simultaneously and not worry about overloading the 100/80 amp circuit capacity - it's an ideal setup for a multi-EV/Hybrid home.

I routinely charge(or have charged in the past)

• Macan
• Taycan
• Audi eTron SUV
• Bolt
• Tesla(s)
• Cayenne Hybrid
• Rivian
• ID.4
• Lucid
• RangeRover hybrid
• Audi Hybrid
• Nissan Leaf
• Hyundai
• Minicooper e
• BMW Hybrid
• BMW iX(s)
• others that slipped my mind

For now the Tesla Universal Wall Charger is my preferred personal choice because:

• 60/48 amp max charge rate
• Wifi support for remote status/configuration via Tesla/app
• Powersharing for multiple EVSE's sharing a single circuit
• integration with my Powerwall's to avoid charging while running on battery power (grid offline)
• built-in J-1772 adapter - so it's dual NACS and J-1772
• reasonable price ($600 or less)
• it does support "scheduling" but I have this disabled and do not use it
• it does support tesla "vin" list - but I don't use this
  • VIN identification over J-1772 is not standardized - so normally this is only supported for certain vendors of EVSE + EV
  • Porsche offers VIN access control for the PMCC/PWCC, but only for Porsche EV's (not even Audi ROFL)

If I did not have the Tesla Units I believe I would have ChargePoint Flex units for their excellent reliablity, app integration, features, price and various features…although they don't support powersharing so I'd have to figure out how I wanted to statically split up my 100/80 amp charging circuit between 2 or 3 Chargepoint units…hmmmmm

there is a wide wide range of excellent choices for EVSE in North America as noted in this and other threads with a lot of references.

related but also kinda off topic below - read only if bored out of your skull…

The Porsche Wall Box is a reasonable choice and reasonably priced as a 100/80 amp 19.2 kW EVSE - and offers excellent myPorsche app support. It has far far far fewer problems than the North American PMC+/PMCC units (since it's not mobile) and it works very well by all accounts. The only possible fly in the ointment with regards to the PWCC is some reports of compatibility problem with non-VW/Audi/Porsche vehicles. On the Taycan forums some people dared to own non-Porsche EV's and they reported various issues/errors when using the PWCC with non-Porsche EV's - resolution of these issues was never confirmed and in most cases the forum members reporting the issues never followed up with resolution or reports of non-resolution - it was left as an "unresolved" series of reports…so YMMV

What is nearly undeniable about the various problems with the North American Porsche EVSE saga is a overwhelming demonstration of Porsche North American's (PCNA) inability to offer any meaningful support or response to EVSE related issues. As the Taycan community worked through various issues with PMC+/PMCC/PWCC units both the Porsche dealer service network and directly PCNA seems unable to mount any consistent or meaningful customer support or resolve esclated issues (to this day after an OTA update for my PMCC unit(s) they can no longer charge my son's Tesla Model Y - where as they operated flawlessly prior to the PMCC OTA update). Feedback and problems with Porsche EVSE's seemed to go into a black hole and never come out. And the dealer network isn't quite the right venue to deal with EVSE technical support and in particular EVSE compatibility issues with nonPorsche EVSE's.

Hypothetically: if you're super bored and wanna have some fun - bring your PMCC unit to your local Porsche Service advisor and slap the PMCC unit onto the counter in front of them and tell them it can not successfully charge your [insert non-Porsche EV here brand]. And that as a J-1772 compliant EVSE you'd like to fix it. The level of blank stare will simply be stunning and unlike anything you've experienced. They are likely to tell you that you've voided your warranty by even plugging it into a non-Porsche EV and that it's not expected to work. For there support will only be even more pathetic and frustrating. The correct solution is for Porsche to update the firmware on the afore mentioned EVSE - but that can't be done by the dealer network and requires getting Prosche Germany to take on a software update bug report and then eventually actually release this software back to the EVSE units (which have better OTA support than their EV's). But getting Porsche germany to "care" that their EVSE units doesn't operate with a non-Porsche EV - well yeah that's a huge hill to climb and even if they it will take months if not years for Porsche to acknowledge and fix the issue - and in the mean time you can't charge your non-Porsche EV while you wait…so you see the problem?​

Even _IF_ you can get Porsche to care about the issue, and eventually "fix" the issue - it's not going to be timely or with any urgency and you're stuck with an EVSE than can't charge your non-Porsche EV - so you've got to find another solution because Porsche is not it…​

Multiple Taycan forum members simply gave up on Porsche EVSE's purely due to Porsche inability to interact with them as an EVSE customer for EVSE specific issues (having nothing to do with an associated EV)…and since an EVSE is supposed to be a universal device for more than just Porsche EV's - Porsche's "lack of EVSE" game lead many Taycan owners to go with EVSE specific vendors that offered factually better and more responsive support to EVSE related issues (warranty, compatibility, features or other issues).

Many many many times Porsche dealers would inform Taycan owners that using a non-Porsche EVSE would void their warranty - which is simply an outright ridiculous statement once you understand what an EVSE actually. Similarly when presented with compatibility problems with their PMCC or PWCC units in that they could not charge non-Porsche EV's - dealers would inform customers that EVSE are vendor specific are at not expected to charge nonPorsche EVs (one Taycan customer was told he need two separate EVSE's - one for his Taycan and one for his Audi for the warranty to be honored - even though the only difference between between the Porsche EVSE and Audi EVSE is a sticker with the logo - they are same physical unit) - calls to PCNA customer support regarding EVSE issues have largely gone unanswered to this day with some issues being "open" for years at this point…

if the Porsche EVSE's work for you that's great and there is zero reason to investigate alternatives unless you're nuts like I am. But if history is any indication should you have any issues with your Porsche EVSE's - the collected experience of the Taycan community is that Porsche's EVSE customer support game is extraordinarily weak almost to the point of demonstrated incompetence and you're better offer with a dedicated EVSE vendor for support of this important EV device/appliance…

my $0.02 - YMMV.

 

[alxman]

@daveo4EV, I’m considering buying a Tesla powerwall. What’s your experience with it and how do you use it? I was wondering whether it can charge overnight (lowest rate) and be used during the 5 peak hours instead of pulling from the grid? Or would it just work as a backup generator? Is it worth the hassle and expense? Thx

 

[daveo4EV]

@daveo4EV, I’m considering buying a Tesla powerwall. What’s your experience with it and how do you use it? I was wondering whether it can charge overnight (lowest rate) and be used during the 5 peak hours instead of pulling from the grid? Or would it just work as a backup generator? Is it worth the hassle and expense? Thx

dm me and let's chat separately.

 

[jwatte]

@daveo4EV, I’m considering buying a Tesla powerwall. What’s your experience with it and how do you use it?

I'm not daveo, but I have two of them on my house, plus solar on the roof, and it saved our bacon when PG&E had a three-day outage a couple of years back.
And, yes, in California you can now charge them from the grid at night and then run the house on charge during peak hours, if you want; that didn't always use to be the case. Technically this works fine, but different states have different regulations.
Whether you want to do this, if you also have solar, depends on what your specific solar rate ends up being, the latest PG&E regulatory capture makes it so you'll probably want to charge solar rather than charge grid. But run the numbers!

 

[USMA81]

If you are buying an EVSE, the embedded video in an earlier post is valuable to watch. For me, the Porsche charger was silly expensive and I found online complaints about it. I don’t need load sharing because I only need to charge one EV at a time. After watching the video, I bought the ChargePoint charger. No regrets. YMMV.

I personally feel that having an EVSE hardwired is necessary. I’d not want a secondary cable running from the charger to a plug in the wall. There have been some reported electrical issues, fires, when the outlet is not high quality. These 240 V NA outlets are the same as those in the home that supply electricity to a clothes dryer / oven / cooktop, but the EVSE will pull 40 amps much longer that the typical run time of a cycle on these other appliances. If there is a bad connection or dubious wall socket design / materials, it could result in a bad day. It is a low risk, but one I chose not to take by installing the ChargePoint charger.

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