Macan 4S EV, coming from a Tesla Model Y: Thoughts?

[alxman]

decelerating the car causes "weight transfer" - driving at the limits you can't have un-anticipated weight transfer - and one pedal driving makes the accelerator and the level of weight transfer unpredictable because the amount of regen varies with vehicle inertia…

I've driven on track with one-pedal driving in my 2018 Model 3 Performance and the variability of regen with regards to one pedal driving from lap to lap to lap is lap-time-consistency killer - because it's a different amount every time going into turn 2 @ Laguna Seca for example.

Consistent laps is a hallmark of a well designed car and an excellent driver - Porsche strives to produce a product that an excellent driver can squeeze excellent performance out of. Excellent drivers require the car to be predictable at the limits - and one pedal driving it not predictable at the limits - it's simply not.

I'm not saying Porsche is right on this car for the broad market - but there is no test driver in Porsche's employ that will give feedback during vehicle development and track testing that will suggest one-pedal drivign is what they want from the car…

• Accelerator make car go - get off of accelerator (lifting) off causes minor weight transfer - but always the same amount
• Brake pedal make car decelerate with a high degree of finesse possible is how one squeezes optimal lap times out of a course like the Nurburgring
  • with a high degree of finesse possible there is minute levels of weight transfer control possible - this is nearly impossible with one-pedal driving

given Porsche's history, focus, and goals - one pedal driving is not what you want for a vehicle with a high degree of control for weight transfer management which is what is required for consistent high performance driving.

Having drivign both types of cars Porsche is not wrong…but htey are wrong about not having it be an option that can be turned off…

one pedal driving has no place/business in track driving given it's lack of predictability - but there could be a driving-mode you put hte car in that turns it off - Porsche's not quite there yet in terms of "mode"…and I'm not sure they will get there.

911's and Porsche's in particular are lauded by driving aficionado's for the level of driver control and this is their legacy - driving aficionado's will lambast Porsche for removing these control levels and that is their audience…ond pedal driving is not a thing in that audience…and it makes car control very difficult - Porsche is not going to make car-control difficult

take an ice-driving or rally driving course (3+ days at least) and then please explain to me your love of one pedal driving - we wont' be having that conversation.

none of this matters or can be experience in street driving - you must be pushing a vehicle hard to experience the "needs" at these sorts of situations - but one pedal driving is "not welcome" going into the braking zone of turns 2, 6, 8a, 11 @ Laguna Seca for example - and certainly not helpful in terms of "consistent" lap times - it makes the car unpredictable for the same inputs.

Professional drivers (not me or anywhere close to me) can provide consistent laps times on any circuit (consistent to less than 1/10th of a second variation) form lap to lap to lap to lap - it's amazing - they are paid for that consistency and the skills they have and awareness they have is amazing - that level of consistency requires consistency in the car's behaviors for the same actions/driver-inputs - in 14 years of hobby track driving I've not met a pro-driver that find one-pedal driving consistent enough to meet the requirements of their profession. It's like telling a chef to prep really great food with a dull knife and/or an oven with variable amounts of temperature control.

having driven the Taycan and Mode 3 at various california tracks, on track across the course of a day. The model 3 is a mess when it comes to lap times and consistency, and the Taycan was "a Porsche" and very consistent lap to lap to lap. One of the many reasons the Taycan was better on track was the lack of one-pedal driving the ability to provide minute levels of braking finesse with left foot braking…not possible with Model 3 and causes vehicle "errors" and lack of predictable outcomes.

Porsche will not design a car that is that inconsistent (even if it never comes up in street driving).

when drifting a 2021 911 GT3 Cupcar with studded ice tires on a complex technical ice-course at track speeds through the woods of finland where a mistake will be rewarded by hitting a tree one pedal driving is not your friend…both the CupCar and 911 GT3 in this picture were masterful and predictable - an absolute requirement for that level of driving - anything less is not a Porsche.

the gentleman above on the right _IS_ a driver hired by Tesla to do some of the early Plaid laps @ Nurburgring - and he was still employed by Tesla when this picture was taking in 2020. His opinions about one pedal driving and it affect on vehicle dynamics and predictability was at odds with his employer, but they couldn't dispute the impact it was having on laps times so he was continuing to work with Tesla to develop track mode - and one of the things track mode does is lessne/remove the amount of regen from one pedal driving.

anyways it's a driver/control and consistency of input concern which is why you wont' see it from Porsche anytime soon - especially if their next EV is the 718…where sports car feel and control with be of paramount importance.

YMMV and my $0.02 - but Porsche _IS_ morally opposed to one pedal driving - and their entire set of Professional text drivers and engineers are also - so there is "no voice" inside Porsche that is going to say "hey this one pedal driving really is better on the ring and we need to get that even better" - because factually it's not better, it had to be turned off.

sign up for an attend any multi-day rally school or ice driving school - Porsche's offerings are excellent - and after drifting cars (or Porsche's) for 2 or more days - none of you will come back fans of one-pedal driving - I promise you it's "not a feature" if you're driving off street.

Appreciate the explanation. I’m somewhat new to EV’s (the Tesla is my wife’s car) and to Porsche (coming from driving BMW’s) and your willingness to share your expertise is greatly welcomed. I have learned so much already and will use your bookmarked posts probably as much as the car manual. Thanks

 

[dgkhn]

So simple: in Normal mode, in Drive. Each successive push into Drive toggles into and out of B mode. That's all. I'll even concede not in Sport or Sport+. What's the harm? (Anyone choosing to drive hard will be in Sport or Sport+ anyway, right?)

You could make similar arguments regarding balance for a driver driving a stick shift poorly on a track. Is that why Porsche is phasing out manual transmissions maybe?

It's not a big deal to me. It just seems like a missed opportunity.

 

[daveo4EV]

decelerating the car causes "weight transfer" - driving at the limits you can't have un-anticipated weight transfer - and one pedal driving makes the accelerator and the level of weight transfer unpredictable because the amount of regen varies with vehicle inertia…

I've driven on track with one-pedal driving in my 2018 Model 3 Performance and the variability of regen with regards to one pedal driving from lap to lap to lap is lap-time-consistency killer - because it's a different amount every time going into turn 2 @ Laguna Seca for example.

Consistent laps is a hallmark of a well designed car and an excellent driver - Porsche strives to produce a product that an excellent driver can squeeze excellent performance out of. Excellent drivers require the car to be predictable at the limits - and one pedal driving is not predictable at the limits - it's simply not.

I'm not saying Porsche is right on this car for the broad market - but there is no test driver in Porsche's employ that will give feedback during vehicle development and track testing that will suggest one-pedal drivign is what they want from the car…

• Accelerator make car go - get off of accelerator (lifting) off causes minor weight transfer - but always the same amount
• Brake pedal make car decelerate with a high degree of finesse possible is how one squeezes optimal lap times out of a course like the Nurburgring
  • with a high degree of finesse possible there is minute levels of weight transfer control possible - this is nearly impossible with one-pedal driving
  • NOTE: you gain lap time with your braking (less braking in fact) - not with the accelerator - the brakes are where you go faster…truth!
• also sometimes for car control you _MUST_ be able to coast - no weight transfer
  • zero weight transfer (after initial lift) is nearly impossible with one-pedal driving - as the point where you have neutral weigtht transfer changes as the car decelerates
    • "chasing" the "coasting" point is not what any driver wants in car control

given Porsche's history, focus, and goals - one pedal driving is not what you want for a vehicle with a high degree of control for weight transfer management, which is what is required for consistent high performance driving.

Having driven both types of cars Porsche is not wrong…but they are wrong about not having it be an option that can be defeated.

one pedal driving has no place/business in track/performance driving given it's lack of predictability - but there could be a driving-mode you put the car in that turns it off - Porsche's not quite there yet in terms of "mode"…and I'm not sure they will ever get there.

911's and Porsche's in particular are lauded by driving aficionado's for the level of driver control and this is their legacy - driving aficionado's will lambast Porsche for removing these control levels and that is their audience…one pedal driving is not a thing in that audience…and it makes car control very difficult - Porsche is not going to make car-control difficult

take an ice-driving or rally driving course (3+ days at least) and then please explain to me your love of one pedal driving - we wont' be having that conversation after you attend any car control course.

none of this matters or can be experience din street driving - you must be pushing a vehicle hard to experience the "needs" at these sorts of situations - but one pedal driving is "not welcome" going into the braking zone of turns 2, 6, 8a, 11 @ Laguna Seca for example - and certainly not helpful in terms of "consistent" lap times - it makes the car unpredictable for the same inputs.

Professional drivers (not me or anywhere close to me) can provide consistent laps times on any circuit (consistent to way way way less than 1/10th of a second variation) from lap to lap to lap to lap - it's amazing - they are paid for that consistency and the skills they have and awareness they have is amazing - that level of consistency requires consistency in the car's behaviors for the same actions/driver-inputs - in 14 years of hobby track driving I've not met a pro-driver that finds one-pedal driving consistent enough to meet the requirements of their profession. It's like telling a chef to prep really great food with a dull knife and/or an oven with variable/random amounts of temperature control.

having driven the Taycan and Model 3 at various california tracks, on track across the course of a day. The model 3 is a mess when it comes to lap times and consistency, and the Taycan was "a Porsche" and very consistent lap to lap to lap. One of the many reasons the Taycan was better on track was the lack of one-pedal driving the ability to provide minute levels of braking finesse with left foot braking…not possible with Model 3 and causes vehicle "errors" and lack of predictable outcomes.

Porsche will not design a car that is that inconsistent (even if it never comes up in street driving).

when drifting a 2021 911 GT3 Cupcar with studded ice tires on a complex technical ice-course at track speeds through the woods of finland where a mistake will be rewarded by hitting a tree, one pedal driving is not your friend…both the CupCar and 911 GT3 in this picture were masterful and predictable - an absolute requirement for that level of driving - anything less than masterful is not a Porsche.

NOTE: clear and consistent inputs to "coast" the car approaching and/or during some corners is a requirement to successfully navigate some corners - "too much lift" out of the accelerator _WILL_ cause a loss of control on ice - one pedal driving is by definition "too much lift" in these circumstances - as a driver I must _KNOW_ that getting out of the accelerator will be "neutral" weight transfer so that I can be off power, but not yet "on the brakes"…virtually impossible with one pedal driving - and not something you want to manage while doing several other things in a high performance environment…it's absolutely _ESSENTIAL_ i can be 100% neutral with the car with ice driving - neither accelerating or decelerating lest I will actually lose control…the neutral point of the accelerator with one pedal driving is constantly changing - it's simply dangerous for ice driving at speed for this level of lack of control. And remember tables stakes for ice driving if you get it wrong is wrapping the $250k sports car around a tree…no one pedal driving please - why would anyone think that's a good idea?

the gentleman above on the right _IS_ a driver hired by Tesla to do some of the early Plaid laps @ Nurburgring - and he was still employed by Tesla when this picture was taking in 2020. His opinions about one pedal driving and it affect on vehicle dynamics and predictability was at odds with his employer, but they couldn't dispute the impact it was having on laps times so he was continuing to work with Tesla to develop track mode - and one of the things track mode does is lessne/remove the amount of regen from one pedal driving.

anyways it's a driver/control and consistency of input concern which is why you wont' see it from Porsche anytime soon - especially if their next EV is the 718…where sports car feel and control with be of paramount importance.

YMMV and my $0.02 - but Porsche _IS_ morally opposed to one pedal driving - and their entire set of Professional text drivers and engineers are also - so there is "no voice" inside Porsche that is going to say "hey this one pedal driving really is better on the ring and we need to get that even better" - because factually it's not better, it had to be turned off.

sign up for an attend any multi-day rally school or ice driving school - Porsche's offerings are excellent - and after drifting cars (or Porsche's) for 2 or more days - none of you will come back fans of one-pedal driving - I promise you it's "not a feature" if you're driving off street.

if you take any car control course (rally, high performance driving, ice driving) one of things you'll hear over and over and over as you learn the skills from the instructors is "patience" - patience on your inputs: steering, braking, acceleration

one of the hardest things to learn with ice driving/rally driving is less input is more - more input is disasterous…to successfully do a rally-flick - you need to do less with the car's input, not more - the less steering you do the more flick you'll do…set it and forget it and let it play out _IS_ the secret to ice driving and rally driving and track driving…less input is faster lap times…less steering, less braking, less time "off" the accelerator - more is slower and less control. Less is faster, and more control…sooooo hard to learn.

patience requires a driver (you) to be neutral with _ALL_ your inputs - no adding/removing steering angle, no adding/removing braking, and no adding/removing acceleration…for what seems long moments of time…on ice you might need to show "patience" for mutliple seconds for things to play out - _ANY_ input will "break" the drift or corner entry/exist you've skillfully setup…

I challenge _ANYONE_ in a Tesla to be "patient" and "neutral" on ice for several seconds of "zero input" while you're entering, doing, exiting a corner on ICE in low grip scenario…

Patience with your input is a strict requirement of car control finesse…and Patience means you're 100% netural with your inputs…

With one pedal driving Patience is impossible - which means high finesse car control is impossible - you can not exercise patience with one-pedal driving because you can't have "zero" input.

many many times to avoid a car control mess in a high speed low grip situation requires you to actually do absolutely nothing to lets the physics play out…it's very very hard to do absolutely nothing with Tesla - you do not have sufficient control over your inputs. Which means Teslas are car control nightmares - which they are.

 

[daveo4EV]

So simple: in Normal mode, in Drive. Each successive push into Drive toggles into and out of B mode. That's all. I'll even concede not in Sport or Sport+. What's the harm? (Anyone choosing to drive hard will be in Sport or Sport+ anyway, right?)

You could make similar arguments regarding balance for a driver driving a stick shift poorly on a track. Is that why Porsche is phasing out manual transmissions maybe?

It's not a big deal to me. It just seems like a missed opportunity.

From Porsche's Point of view:

"why would I remove car control" from any of the modes? The car should always be ready to be finessed/controled - the car is always "a Porsche" - regardless of mode. And one pedal driving is the antithesis of car-control.

Porsche is never going to do anything that makes the car worse by default - and in their mind car control is paramount and one pedal driving makes that worse - not a conversation we're having during the design of _ANY_ Porsche vehicle - to date…

Regarding manual transmissions: they offer more control not less…

Heel-toe with accelerator and clutch and a manual transmission is the ultimate skill set for car control on track - a manual transmission with heal-toe brake/accelerator control along with disengaging the engine from the drive train with clutch is the ultimate amount of finesse and car control - it's more car control not less if you learn the skills - and you can do things you can not do with PDK…again you can be 100% neutral with your inputs which is absolutely _ESSENTIAL_ for high performance consistent performance driviing.

911 GT3's PDK vehicle's come with a unique feature not present in other 911's - if you pull both paddles at the same time - you disengage the transmission (like what you can accomplish with a clutch on a manual car) - this allows you to "force" neutral bias into your driving should it be necessary - this "pull both paddles" feature is only on the 911 GT3's PDK - not the other PDK 911's…this is just one of many minute differences across the model line of 911's where Porsche provides purposeful changes in the cars behavior for a given purpose.

they certainly could add this feature to some/all PDK vehicle's - but they don't - that's because they are Porsche - and they do everything for a reason (not always a good reason).

Porsche has their reasons for everything. If you don't like it - well they honestly don't care. They have a large a loyal customer base that values those reasons and the minute differences across their product lines and trim levels - no other car maker does this - you buy a Porsche because they do this sort of thing.

they will succeed or fail with this continued approach and mind set - but so far they aren't going to abandon it - because then they may transition to no longer "being Porsche".

Hordes of former Tesla owners telling them they love one pedal driving doesn't improve car control - so Porsche is simply confused by this feedback. Because they've been doing the ultimate performance sports cars for longer than Tesla's been in business and they've learned the hard way what works for car control and what doesn't. And frankly Tesla's are not known as "car control" driver input beacon's of excellence - they are in fact the opposite of car control beacon's for the driver. Tesla driver's are not Porsche's market - anymore than price conscious phone buyers are not Apple's market (both companies are wildlly profitable and successful by the way despite the advise of their "critics")

You either get it or you don't as customers. But if you do git, and once you get you're a customer for life because you can't find this level of attention in any other brand. If you do not get it, or never get it then you're not Porsche's customers - and honestly they don't care. Their annual sales volumes are bad production weeks for most car makers - so they can afford to be less appealing to a wider audience, because for the most part they have historically been fine…we'll see how that plays out going foward.

but to date they are the most Profitable car vendors in the world - period full stop - their vehicle profit margins the envy of the industry - no one else makes as much money per-vehicle as they do and in surprisingly small volumes of total vehicle's made/sold.

Porsche is gonna do what they are gonna do - because to date it's worked for them - your input (and mine BTW) doesn't matter (yet)…

that might be changing - but so far not enough to move the needle to get Porsche to change…

my $0.02 YMMV

 

[daveo4EV]

next EV due from Porsche - the well regarded and highly-neutral mid-engined perfectly balance car control beacon of excellence known as the 718 (virtually all reviews share this feedback/opinion) - perhaps the epitome of the 2 seater roadster sports car, light, agile, fun, easy to control, and masterful at car control inputs and the car's response to those inputs is considered among the best in the industry. The 718 is in fact so good that Porsche' routinely neuters it to avoid stealing market share from the acknowledge 'best" sports car in the world called a 911…

And Porschd consciously positions the 718 in both terms of price and performance below the 911, but with no compromises in terms of car control or ability…

Please step forward if you think you're the person at the beginning of the 718 EV program that says:

Hey everyone! You iknow what we need to keep the 718 EV at the top of it's game as one of the best sports cars in the world for driver focus and control. One pedal driving! Cause we wont' appeal to our current customers and/or new customers without one pedal driving. Yeah that's gonna be essential to cementing our reputation for driver focused sports cars offering control and balance beyond what our competition offers. One pedal driving is our ticket to greatness for the 718 EV…cause that will make it a better driver's car.

yeah I'm not feeling that 'briefing" in the design notes when the program started…just not feeling it.

 

[Awaz]

Very illuminating and educational posts @daveo4EV
As I have said before, I was never enthusiastic about the one pedal drive car I had before, the i4 EV.
For slowing down by shifting the lever to B mode and then pressing the brake was two modes, for me, using hand and foot.
With this Macan I find it much more natural with just brake. Coasting the car freely without pressing on the accelerator and the car slowing with its own weight as necessary is much more desirable for me.
Therefore, I haven't even used the car's Regen mode, just brake Regen is good for me

Edit: Would love to go on one of those car control courses you mentioned.

 

[TWHMan]

I owned Tesla's since 2012 - last personal tesla was 2018 Model 3 performance - but have Model Y's "in the family" still - but not daily access…

• Dog mode - no explicit dog mode, but you can leave the HVAC running when you get out of the car - it's a choice when you unlock and open the driver's door that pop's up
• no camera's view on turn signal - but you have blind sport indicators in the mirrors and with ambient lighting on the doors
• porsche dash cam sucks ass - you'll need to go non-Porsche if you want a dash camera
• Porsche nav is only slightly worse than Tesla nav - and I don't trust/use either for charge planning - both will show you a rough "sketch" of where to charge - and then in both cases I always enter my "next" destination to get the battery estimate @ destination
  • what you lose with Tesla Nav you gain back with CarPlay/Android auto support - so you have more map/navigation options than just Porsche
• Porsche has a remote parking support - I've never even tried it - never heard of anyone trying it - I wouldn't rely on it - I agree summon is useful for backing out of tight parking spaces - but I don't miss it.
• OTA updates - with Macan it's TBD - historically I'd ROFL - but maybe with Macan we'll have more updates - but it's a not a Tesla and VW/Audi/Porsche are in no hurry to "meet" Tesla where they live on this - best to assume updates (even dealer service based ones) will be minimual and the car and it's software will be the same in 2029 as it is today - if that's not the case you can be pleasantly surprised.
• I like one pedal driving, I understand one pedal driving, I understand Porsche's approach and reasons, I still think porsche is wrong and it should be an "option" in certain drive modes - but frankly I'm tired of this argument - honestly it does't matter - everyone gets used to it in about 10 minutes - get over it - not worth discussing - both systems work and are manageable
• auto-hold - simply press the brake pedal a little harder and you get auto-hold
  • auto-hold only makes sense in the context of one-pedal driving - with Porsche since you're on the brake pedal anyways - when you come to a full stop - just press a little harder and release - and you have 'hold'
• screen + buttons - and the buttons are in the center dash for HVAC and a few other things - you'll be fine.

the Macan has quite a bit less interior volume for passengers and cargo - you'll miss that more than any of the tech you've discussed - but it will be quieter, better handling, and better built for quite a bit more money - so it's your call

ignore your list - what you'll miss is from the Y is…

• vastly better cargo room and passenger space of the Model Y
• phone as a key and fully functional remote app
• a functional fast charging network that you can assume will work when you show up
• an admission there is no service to be done on an EV and no sad attempts to get $2000 for a 2 year "service/inspection"
• service network where _ALL_ the mechanics at the service center are "EV certified" - so you never need to wait for Bill our "EV" guy to be in the shop in a couple days since he's out on leave until tuesday…
• no drive modes so the car is always ready for full performance
• summon for getting out of tight parking space if that's important to you
• watching netflix while fast charging away from home
• price of any repairs should they be necessary
• a company/culture that gets "EVs"
• the money in the bank account you save by not paying the Porsche tax
• raw unbridled acceleration that is always on tap with no preparation required

what you won't miss from the Y

• turning radius of the Model Y - you'll be amazed how bad it is/was
• numb steering
• noisy cabin
• sub-par build quality
• vampire drain of the battery overnight
• bouncy ride
• barely tested driving assistance software that will try and kill you and is constantly being revised - so what is this weeks surprise change in driving behavior?
• being associated with Elon
• seats - porsche seats choices are sooo much better
• a sun roof that can't open
• doors that rattle and sound like they are going to fall apart when you close them
• stalks on the steering wheel
• limited selection of body color
• limited selectxion of interior trims/materials/colors
• glove box open via software
• lack of door pockets
• lack of satelite radio if that's your thing
• rattles and squeaks

it's all about trade offs and what you want to prioritize for - if you want the _BEST_ EV keep your Y - there is no better EV in North America - if you want a great mid-sized SUV that happens to also be an ok EV the Macan will make you very very happy.

Tesla makes an excellent EV and a mediocre car
Porsche makes an excellent car and a mediocre EV

make your choice.

I love my Macan Turbo EV and every time I drive my son's Model Y I'm reminded why I don't have a Model Y even though I can go toe to toe with anyone on why the Model Y is great car - it's not for me.

Fantastic comparison David. "Tesla makes an excellent EV and a mediocre car. Porsche makes an excellent car and a mediocre EV".
BTW, in the Macan, you can download a web browser and you can watch Netflix, Prime or whatever you watch at home while you are charging away from home.

 

[daveo4EV]

Fantastic comparison David. "Tesla makes an excellent EV and a mediocre car. Porsche makes an excellent car and a mediocre EV".
BTW, in the Macan, you can download a web browser and you can watch Netflix, Prime or whatever you watch at home while you are charging away from home.

that's a great tip - I didn't think to use a browser for the viewing - wow - see we're making progress already!

 

[daveo4EV]

Edit: Would love to go on one of those car control courses you mentioned.

you can start with one of these courses - this is just _ONE_ example of where to start - pick/dates that work for you - https://www.porsche-experiencecente...paign=other_de_pec_hhr_precision_2025_11_2024

once you've done a few "track" education courses - I would suggest signing up for Porsche's ICE experiences in finland - they open registration in mid august - they are fully booked/sold-out by end of august - if not the first week they are open - you then go to ICE driving in January/Febuary and come back a new and improved driver…

it's hard to imagine anyone attending any of these courses and coming back and suggesting one-pedal driving is a desireable feature…but who knows.

• experience.porsche.com - any of the ICE or Performance experiences they list will do the trick
• Porsche experience Center @ Silverstone is excellent - and well worth it - start with some instruction sessions - you'll learn an amazing amount…

my weapon of choice for 3 days @ SPA in Belgium shown below…entering Eau Rouge @ 140 mph+ is _NOT_ where you want one pedal driving…finesse required is an understatement - the fact that you can do this in a street car (911 GT3 RS or a Taycan) is simply amazing - in the rain at 100+ mph coming off a fast straight entering an uphill s-style turn where the car gets light at the top of the hill - short of full race cars there are not a lot of street cars I'd want to take through that corner - Tesla is very very low on the list for that track and that corner in particular…

Porsche's championship Formula-e race car and it's championship driver - extreme EV performance and car control and a driver in full control of all aspects of the vehicle at all times…one pedal driving - please don't make me laugh…

finally here is a Taycan day w/porsche - I didn't attend - https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/taycans-on-trackdays-spa-francorchamps-🇧🇪.10453/

again no one pedal driving here … it's not safe.

 

[ros]

David, what are your thoughts regarding the “accel lag” in Macan 4 that many folks mentioned? How does it help with the “car control” philosophy? Maybe I wrong, but instant torque should help improve the feedback, rather than delayed feedback.

 

[daveo4EV]

David, what are your thoughts regarding the “accel lag” in Macan 4 that many folks mentioned? How does it help with the “car control” philosophy? Maybe I wrong, but instant torque should help improve the feedback, rather than delayed feedback.

smooth inputs is what you're going for - but most importantly predictability - the accelerator should behave the same in the same situation every time - once the driver learns the vehicle they can give the vehicle "input" and it will perform to a predictable outcome…laggy is not a problem if it's consistentlly laggy i can adjust my "go to power" timing once I know what to expect.

a GT4 Cayman is "down on power" and will have a laggy accelerator vs. a 911 TurboS - but in both cases the car will behave predictively and consistently given an equal set of inputs on teh same car - but both cars will behave differently than one another…sudden/harsh acceleration isn't useful because it's also sudden weight transfer - you don't want to "shock" the tires, suspension, or the vehicle in general - mechanical elements can not response instantly - you'll gain more speed and improved lap times with smooth and steady inputs…no one coming out of turn 11 @ laguna seca mashes the pedal to the floor - that's a 100% recipe for a visit to the pit wall and extreme body damage - rather as you unwind the steering wheel from the 130 degree corner you slowly and smoothly "feed" power to the accelerator, only going to the floor once the steering wheel is straight and the car settled from the turn…

911 Turbo's require you driver them differently than a Cayman/Boxster or 911 GT3 - a rush of turbo boost mid corner given turbo-lag is "exciting" and not in a good way if you as a driver were not expecting it - in a 911 GT3 mid corner I'm going to power just past the apex slowly and gradually until corner exit - I know the power is linear because that what it always does - but a 911 Turbo if I goto power mid corner I'll have turbo boost a bit early before the wheel is straight - and therefore may induce oversteer on corner exit - so I delay going to power on the Turbo vs. the GT3 so that the Turbo boost comes later in the turn when the wheel is closer to straight and therefore less likely to cause my rear end to step out…you adjust your inputs to suit the vehicle you're driving, but those inputs don't change from lap to lap if the vehicle is consistent.

lastly during track driving you are rarely doing anything from a standing start - the car is constantlly in motion - and the goal is to smoothly transition the car from turn to straight to braking to turn back to straight - your feeding power and inputs (steering, brakes, accelerator) - sudden bursts of power are not your friend nor are they beneficial since you will overwhelm your tire's grip and lose control of the vehicle…there are few if any places on a track where I want to "mash" the accelerator to the floor and get all the power at once - the rear end won't tolerate it (in any car) and if I don't crash I lose massive amounts of lap time backing out of the accelerator and waiting for the car to settle down from my bad inputs…

Tesla's instant acceleration is a great party trick and one I personally enjoy - but it's only useful in a straight line or drag racing from a stop - it has little if any value on the track - where I spend most of my time "waiting" to "go to power" so as not to overwhelm the tire's grip on the rear end of the vehicle when exiting corners…

have you tried sports or sports plus to see if teh Macan 4 has more ugency on the accelerator? how about launch control?

while on track having a laggy accelerator is actually helpful in that I can go to power on the accelerator and know I'm not going to overwhelm the tires with too much power all at once - I had a hoot one day driving my wife's 2015 Boxster S at Laguna Seca - it was so much less stressful vs. my 911 GT3 - I could go to power much sooner with the Boxster - because given it's lower horsepower and slower acceleration ramp there was less consequence of going to full power in the corners - much easier to drive and far less stressful because the car spent less time "waiting" for the tires and their grip levels - soooo much fun cause you can basically drive it around at full power all the time and it will be mostly consequence free - do that with a GT3 for about 1/3rd of lap before you'll wreck in turn 6 if you go to full power on the accelerator too soon after you turn in…

I'm a certified PCA national instructor - when I encounter a new student with limited track driving experience - most of the time (not always) we spend most of their first day trying to get them to do less input to the car - not mash accelerator out of every corner, not jerk the steering wheel at the last moment, not pound on the brakes - if you calm down your inputs and "feed" them gradually but in earnest the results and the improvement will be astounding - and a few students by the end of the day were very much better as a result of "less" input done more smoothly - a few however did not progress and they had a much harder time adjusting to track driving…

I can give you hot laps with harsh inputs - you won't like the results and neither with the stop watch - it also wears the tires, brakes, and suspension elements much more for no gain and actual loss of performance.

I'll go much faster in a Macan 4 with smooth and consistent inputs vs. someone in a Macan Turbo that is simply mashing the pedal the all the time - it's fun for example at track days to watch Mazda miata's doing better lap times than poorly driven Ferarri's even though the Ferarri has literally 10x the horse power of a Mazda Miata.

you don't need the macan 4 to have instant accelerator response if you're doing it correctly…

 

[daveo4EV]

David, what are your thoughts regarding the “accel lag” in Macan 4 that many folks mentioned? How does it help with the “car control” philosophy? Maybe I wrong, but instant torque should help improve the feedback, rather than delayed feedback.

also to a certain extent if you're adjust to "feedback" from the car you're already too late - if you're pounding out quality and consistent lap times - your driving "in front" of the car - i.e. you know when to give the desired/designated input with out any feedback from the car - if you're responding to feedback it's because something unexpected is happening…and if something unexpected is happening the last thing you typically want is a sudden additional input - normally recovering from any 'feedback' from the vehicle means smoothly removing some input to allow the car to settle…rather than push more energy into a bad situation…

I watch a lot of F1 - and when they are pounding out laps - they are calm with very little input - it's when they do an 'extra' input that they screwed up - if they are on their pace there is very little goign on at 200 mph…because the car is 100% predictable…

if want to have some fun - watch some races where the current world champion Max Verstappen is given an inconsistent car - his radio messages are hilarious - when his RB car isn't consistent he might as well be me driving the car - because he can't do anything lap to lap to lap since he can't predict what the car is going to do for the same set of inputs - so he's constantly adjusting to no avail and just can't get into the rhythm required to provide consistent lap times - but given him a consistent car where he can predict inputs to outcomes and even when his car is "slower" he eats the rest of the field alive because he's arguably the best driver in the world right now…even in a "slower" car - but it's 100% predictable right up to the absolute edge of it's performance envelope. Give max that car and he'll eat you alive regardless of your car's performance "advantage".

minute finesse with progressive and linear response is better on track than "instant" anything…

 

[ros]

also to a certain extent if you're adjust to "feedback" from the car you're already too late - if you're pounding out quality and consistent lap times - your driving "in front" of the car - i.e. you know when to give the desired/designated input with out any feedback from the car - if you're responding to feedback it's because something unexpected is happening…and if something unexpected is happening the last thing you typically want is a sudden additional input - normally recovering from any 'feedback' from the vehicle means smoothly removing some input to allow the car to settle…rather than push more energy into a bad situation…

I watch a lot of F1 - and when they are pounding out laps - they are calm with very little input - it's when they do an 'extra' input that they screwed up - if they are on their pace there is very little goign on at 200 mph…because the car is 100% predictable…

if want to have some fun - watch some races where the current world champion Max Verstappen is given an inconsistent car - his radio messages are hilarious - when his RB car isn't consistent he might as well be me driving the car - because he can't do anything lap to lap to lap since he can't predict what the car is going to do for the same set of inputs - so he's constantly adjusting to no avail and just can't get into the rhythm required to provide consistent lap times - but given him a consistent car where he can predict inputs to outcomes and even when his car is "slower" he eats the rest of the field alive because he's arguably the best driver in the world right now…even in a "slower" car - but it's 100% predictable right up to the absolute edge of it's performance envelope. Give max that car and he'll eat you alive regardless of your car's performance "advantage".

minute finesse with progressive and linear response is better on track than "instant" anything…

David, thanks for the detailed answer. I need to read it a few times to fully digest the nuances .

 

[Hawk_Tuah]

I had absolutely no acceleration lag today with my 4s. So don’t worry about it. Maybe the 4 is just a bit underpowered.

 

[Gordon87]

I want to thank everyone who has responded in this thread to my inquiry and to subsequent posts here. This thread provided so much more information and advice than I anticipated when I prepared my initial post.

Also, this thread became educational for me far beyond merely a purchase decision. I better understand the trade-offs (benefits as well as burdens) with moving from a Tesla to a Porsche. Having never driven a Porsche (other than my recent short test drive of a Macan 4 EV) but having friends and family who have owned them, I can appreciate the wide-ranging discussion of various topics (some EV-specific and some not) in this thread.

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