Software updates - why is Porsche so far behind.......?

[TomekGnomek]

It is a convenience but at some point it devolved into an accusation that I’m gadget obsessed. I don’t want to be insulted or belittled, or have someone assume I need an update for no reason. I started with a reason, I shared what I learned about OTA and then I got insulted.

I totally get you point and share your frustration.

Some people here are overprotective of their core identity.

Fact is Porsche is failing to meet reasonable expectations of many customers - especially those who switch from other brands or compare to what is a current standard on the market - and you can see it being reflected in their sales numbers, stock price and forum posts.

OTA is a very basic function that should work but in reality it doesn't.

Having problems checking the SoC on your mobile app which does not update data is a very basic function that should work but in many cases it doesn't.

TBH my relationship with this brand is a textbook definition of a toxic relationship these cars have soul which is hard to come by these days and drive like no other but the fact sex is good does not mean there are no serious issues at play here...

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[Petzi]

You could say he got a lemon Tesla and switched to good Macan.

There are similar stories in the other direction with lemon Macans that "try and cause an accident due to software issues in basic driving related systems".

I'm sure not all Teslas have these problems as I've driven many without these issues.

thats absurd. tesla is the car with the most deadly accidents in us. not one serious accident reported for macan due to software

 

[seraphmoss]

I totally get you point and share your frustration.

Some people here are overprotective of their core identity.

Fact is Porsche is failing to meet reasonable expectations of many customers - especially those who switch from other brands or compare to what is a current standard on the market - and you can see it being reflected in their sales numbers, stock price and forum posts.

OTA is a very basic function that should work but in reality it doesn't.

Having problems checking the SoC on your mobile app which does not update data is a very basic function that should work but in many cases it doesn't.

TBH my relationship with this brand is a textbook definition of a toxic relationship these cars have soul which is hard to come by these days and drive like no other but the fact sex is good does not mean there are no serious issues at play here...

Your comment that the “cars have soul” is brilliant. They really do. It looks great, handles brilliantly, every detail is perfect. As a consumer and a fan, I just expect that everything they put in the car will be up to that standard.

I know electronics are complicated, I’ve engineered complex systems for decades (not cars but sometimes for cars) and I still do.

In my case, that “soul” extends to the people at my local dealership too. They are all great representatives of the brand. I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be for them to have to deal with these issues. PCM isn’t just an EV thing, so it really applies to the entire brand.

It’s even more frustrating when the app is connecting and authorized online and the car is working and connected to the Internet too but the app can’t see the car (thinks it is in private mode) and the car isn’t in private mode (Porsche tech checked status and it’s the car not updating it’s status).

When it’s working, success will forgive all ills. I just need it to work.

 

[TomekGnomek]

thats absurd. tesla is the car with the most deadly accidents in us. not one serious accident reported for macan due to software

This was not the point I was making but let go this route - there are 10 mln Teslas in use? vs 50k Macans? I would bet you if there were as many Macans given current track record of this car this would be a disaster for Porche.

 

[Petzi]

The software issue should basically be treated seriously: the operating system controls the engine, battery, chassis and brakes — in other words, the car's basic functions. In my opinion, it works perfectly and, in many areas, better than comparable cars. In my opinion, it makes no sense at all to change this via an OTA update. The system is too complex for that — you could even say it's too good.

In addition, there is the user interface. This includes navigation, autonomous driving, CarPlay, keyless entry and more. If they are more important to you than anything else, you should probably drive a Tesla. Tesla is still the best in this regard.

But I don't understand why the same people have been posting the same complaints on this forum for for months now, even years. I've bought around 50 cars in my life, and I haven't been happy with all of them. If I wasn't satisfied within the first four weeks, I traded the car in and bought something else.

I also don't understand why these members are shedding crocodile tears when they express such great concern about the future of Porsche. Some car manufacturers set their own priorities: Bentley, Rolls-Royce, Lotus, Ferrari and Porsche, for example. Anyone upset in 2007 because the 911 still didn't have a fuel-injected engine simply bought the wrong car. Today, these final carburettor models are among the most valuable.

 

[Petzi]

This was not the point I was making but let go this route - there 10 mln Teslas in use? vs 50k Macans? I would bet you if there were as many Macans given current track record of this car this would be a disaster for Porche.

of course the numbers of accidents are adjusted to the number of sold cars. there is no car with more deadly accidents in US than tesla (in relation to sold units) and of course you did make this argument:
"There are similar stories in the other direction with lemon Macans that "try and cause an accident due to software issues in basic driving related systems".
where are this stories ? I do not know of ONE accident of a macan caused by software issues.

 

[TomekGnomek]

of course the numbers of accidents are adjusted to the number of sold cars. there is no car with more deadly accidents in US than tesla (in relation to sold units) and of course you did make this argument:
"There are similar stories in the other direction with lemon Macans that "try and cause an accident due to software issues in basic driving related systems".
where are this stories ? I do not know of ONE accident of a macan caused by software issues.

Calm down I"m not defending Tesla in any way and I bet you are right. Just saying not all Teslas have these problems just like not all Macans have issues.

Stories of Macans almost causing an accident are here on the forum and I've had a situation like that with assistance systems before the big update. There are people here with cars going dark on highways so it's just a numbers game before something like that causes a serious accident. So far it's a low volume production but some issues people describe here seem very serious and if extrapolated to Tesla volumes could easily result in something really bad.

 

[TomekGnomek]

But I don't understand why the same people have been posting the same complaints on this forum for for months now, even years. I've bought around 50 cars in my life, and I haven't been happy with all of them. If I wasn't satisfied within the first four weeks, I traded the car in and bought something else.

I think some people are stuck with a vehicle for the duration of a lease. Not everyone have means to just swap cars like shoes. I think this is a testament of Porsche service centers failing to resolve these issues and hence ongoing frustration.

I also don't understand why these members are shedding crocodile tears when they express such great concern about the future of Porsche.

This is a forum for enthusiasts, what do you expect? I'm not shredding crocodile tears just saying all germans manufacturers are in a tough spot due to subsidized disruption from China. Something that happens in the IT industry every year or so first time happened to the automotive industry and it's fun and interesting to watch

 

[skshimer]

i am just reposting this perfect text

Ditto with my Model S. I put a “I brake for ghosts“ bumper sticker in the rear window.

 

[Petzi]

I think some people are stuck with a vehicle for the duration of a lease. Not everyone have means to just swap cars like shoes. I think this is a testament of Porsche service centers failing to resolve these issues and hence ongoing frustration.



This is a forum for enthusiasts, what do you expect? I'm not shredding crocodile tears just saying all germans manufacturers are in a tough spot due to subsidized disruption from China. Something that happens in the IT industry every year or so first time happened to the automotive industry and it's fun and interesting to watch

Dear Tomek. The only understandable criticism of Porsche software, in my opinion, is that there is no way to add functions that have been not included in the original setting of the car. OTA or otherwise (e.g., keyless entry).

That has always been the case with Porsche. My 2017 911 50 Edition does not have Apple CarPlay. It cannot be retrofitted either (except with a new PCM).

Otherwise, everything works perfectly in my two Macans. Every software update has improved things, and the charging planning and battery preconditioning work perfectly. The car drives great, and I use Porsche navigation for charging and Waze on the center screen.

A Porsche is not a software product! All of this software hype only works better in a Tesla, and even then only at first glance. I'd rather have good brakes than OTA, which I have to pay for again and again. Autonomous driving from tesla costs $99/month (!) in the US.

This forum should provide real information. Instead, every thread is filled with philosophizing about keyless entry and preheating the battery. No matter what topic you want to discuss.

And, of course, everyone parrots how bad the software supposedly is. These are always the same people who don't want to understand how this car is designed. Instead of reading the user manual or at least watching a few videos on YouTube, they demand features that no other car has either or that are worse than the Porsche concept (e.g., preheating the battery).

That makes no sense at all. With some people, you have to wonder if they even own a Macan, because some of the criticism is so incomprehensible.

On the other hand, it's true that Porsche (but also Tesla) have sold many cars in China in the past. Now the Chinese prefer to buy their own cars. But no OTA and no software can help with that. This is fatal for mass-produced products, but Porsche will certainly be able to cope with it. And on the subject of the “European auto industry”: This will hit USA soon. The US car manufacturers will have much bigger problems once BYD and the others are fully established on the US market. This will be a much bigger problem for US car companies than for Porsche! Or for VW. They have at least a EV for every segment.

 

[Petzi]

this is how chinese car software (BYD seal) work.
spoiler: porsche way better.
verry funny: deeicing the front camera with window cleaner after 2KW of preheating..

 

[TomekGnomek]

The only understandable criticism of Porsche software, in my opinion, is that there is no way to add functions that have been not included in the original setting of the car. OTA or otherwise (e.g., keyless entry). Otherwise, everything works perfectly in my two Macans.

It's like saying there is no world hunger because your fridge is full.

If you ask chat for a summary of reported software issues on this forum alone you will get a very long list. Beginning with many reports of mobile app having problems connecting to the car, plug & charge issues, lots of random warnings and errors, charging issues like dropping to 5kw, screens going dark, assistance systems doing weird stuff, backup camera latency, carplay issues, android auto problems, PCM freezing, problems with multiple users, speed limit signs disappearing, missing menu items and it's just from the top of my head

 

[Reno]

The top of my head

 

[seraphmoss]

thats absurd. tesla is the car with the most deadly accidents in us. not one serious accident reported for macan due to software

not worried about software causing a crash. I want to plug my car in and be able to out when it is ready so I can be considerate and let someone else use the bay.

The top of my head

and in my case I just wanted a basic feature that exists to work. I’m not dreaming of Porsche adding stuff I didn’t buy. I just wanted what I paid for.

 

[seraphmoss]

Completely agree on all the points and firmware issues. Great to see all of the actual detail. Thanks for that. Unfortunately that puts them way behind (newer) so called 'zonal' architectures popular in new versions of EV's coming from BMW and Volvo/Geeli. Innovated by the likes of Tesla, Rivian and Lucid -- adopted by the Chinese, I'm sure.
I am hearing noises that the joint efforts with Rivian and VW supposedly undertaken to actually solve this problem are not doing well .. probably because of the massive clash of cultures and the overhaul of the supply chains that grew up around ECU's. Electretec recently did a review of the new assembly line for Cayenne's. It's clear that innovative directions in Porsche are focused on core automotive engineering and maybe on flexible manufacturing. That doesn't bode well for SDC and OTA updates anytime soon. I saw this play out with both Sony and Blackberry when up against Apple in another life. The outcome was not pleasant for purely engineering based companies. They always view software as an afterthought needing to be retrofitted into their beautiful and superior designs.

I have, so far, no major issues with my Macan 4S and I love to drive it. However, after 3 Porsche's, unless they fix the SDC and OTA issues, I'm afraid this might be my last one. I'm NOT going back to ICE.

Not going back to ICE either. Engineers just need to spend a month working at a dealer dealing with consumers and learn empathy for that perspective.

All the technical explanations in the world don’t matter to a purchaser that just wants a working car and features already paid for without having to spend endless cycles with dealerships.

The Porsche “Experience” should be hassle free for purchasers and Porsche staff. Do technical things in the back. Get the car activated and going. See dealer every 10,000 miles. Anything else, I might as well have bought a second hand Mondeo.

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