Macan 4S EV, coming from a Tesla Model Y: Thoughts?

[jsaccio]

I had absolutely no acceleration lag today with my 4s. So don’t worry about it. Maybe the 4 is just a bit underpowered.

Thank you that puts my mind at ease.

 

[USMA81]

Maybe the 4 is just a bit underpowered.

Compared to what? If you’re not tracking your Macan or driving it like a fiend on the streets, I’d argue any of the Macan versions have a lot of power, even with the weight. If you’re regularly using the power in the S or Turbo over and above the level that exists in the 4, you’re going to go through tires quickly, among many other negative effects. Said differently, you’re likely to not use more power than is available in the 4 very often even if you have more in reserve in the S or Turbo.

I wonder if the lag feeling, if each 4 owner experiences it (I have yet to test it on my vehicle), is more a function of accelerator tuning. Out of Spec Dave mentioned this in a recent video: that one had to press the accelerator farther on the Macan vs the Tesla. He contends that this provides the Macan driver more finesse in controlling the vehicle (his wife was “twitchy” in driving their Tesla). If someone is used to the Tesla pedal, it might take time to get used to pushing the pedal farther for the same level of acceleration. Not doing so, it could feel “laggy.” Just wondering.

 

[jsaccio]

Compared to what? If you’re not tracking your Macan or driving it like a fiend on the streets, I’d argue any of the Macan versions have a lot of power, even with the weight. If you’re regularly using the power in the S or Turbo over and above the level that exists in the 4, you’re going to go through tires quickly, among many other negative effects. Said differently, you’re likely to not use more power than is available in the 4 very often even if you have more in reserve in the S or Turbo.

I wonder if the lag feeling, if each 4 owner experiences it (I have yet to test it on my vehicle), is more a function of accelerator tuning. Out of Spec Dave mentioned this in a recent video: that one had to press the accelerator farther on the Macan vs the Tesla. He contends that this provides the Macan driver more finesse in controlling the vehicle (his wife was “twitchy” in driving their Tesla). If someone is used to the Tesla pedal, it might take time to get used to pushing the pedal farther for the same level of acceleration. Not doing so, it could feel “laggy.” Just wondering.

Perhap go back and read my original post.

 

[bbmertz]

I took delivery of a 4S three days ago, owned a long range Model Y for the past 4 years and a Model S for 8 years before that. I really liked my Teslas but was ready for a change and will be happy with my 4S purchase once the software glitches are resolved.

Here are my initial impressions of the 4S relative to the Y:

- 4S has much more luxurious, high quality interior with customizable options
- 4S acceleration is comparable to L/R Y. I was disappointed by the off-the-line acceleration of the 4 relative to the Y, so I’m glad I bought the 4S.
- 4S subjectively has a very sporty drive and the turning radius is tighter with the RAS, although not necessarily a must-have option
- I miss the geolocation-based garage door opening/closing, side mirror folding/unfolding and auto lock override features of my Y
- Rear camera, built-in dash/sentry cam, OTA software updates and adapter-free supercharger access are also advantages of the Y.

You can find my detailed review of the 4S in this thread:
https://www.macanevowners.com/forum/threads/macan-4s-detailed-first-impressions.18504/

 

[daveo4EV]

side mirror folding/unfolding and auto lock override features of my Y

spend some time in settings and you find all you need to reach parity with the model Y on the feedback above

 

[bbmertz]

spend some time in settings and you find all you need to reach parity with the model Y on the feedback above

@daveo4EV I found the auto folding mirror and auto locking features in the 4S, however on the Tesla you are able to set a distance away from the garage at which the mirrors will begin folding/unfolding and to override auto locking at set locations such as inside the garage, in addition to automatic activation of Homelink. Let me know if you managed to find those features on the Macan.

 

[USMA81]

Perhap go back and read my original post.

Yes, I did read your original post and certainly respect your impression of there being a lag. I haven’t put my foot down hard enough yet to see if I experience that (I want more break-in miles on the vehicle before doing that). In my comment above, however, I was wondering for someone coming from Tesla whether the impression of lag might be due to a difference in pedal travel to get the same level of power (by design by Porsche). It’s a not-unreasonable question. It takes a split second longer to push the pedal deeper on the floor (vs Tesla) and perhaps that might the source of the feeling of lag. Just wondering. After all, both have similar technology, electric motors.

I also was questioning the comment that any of the different Macan trim Levels are “under-powered.” If someone feels that way, then yes, get the S or Turbo. Yet unless a driver regularly is using more than 370 +/- horsepower during their accelerations from a stop, day in and out, then they aren’t using any more power than is available in any trim level. My ”compared to what” question was, I think, valid: OK, compared to the S or Turbo, the Base or 4 are “under-powered.” Of course. Still, they still have more power than 98% of the vehicles on the road (arbitrary guess), and more than enough for daily driving, conditions that will exist for 99.9% of the time these cars are in use (arbitrarily allotting .1% for the time very few owners will spend at the track and actually use more than 370 hp). That said, I fully defend anyone’s positive or negative impressions of any aspect of ownership. In the end, we all buy Porsches, and indeed any luxury goods, for emotional reasons and our impressions of those goods. We buy higher trim levels, or indeed even more expensive Porsches, for those same emotional reasons and impressions.

 

[Awaz]

@USMA81
I agree to your observations.
I have the base Macan RWD, and never find the acceleration lacking. 0-60 in 5.4 seconds is really good and is the same as I had in my previous i4 eDrive 40. Whereas, comparing the data of both, the torque figure in the base Macan in much higher at 415 lb-ft compared to 317 lb-ft in i4. And yet, passengers never liked the neck jerking I was getting in i4, especially my wife hated it. Whereas, in Macan the pace is linear, more to our liking. And yet, acceleration and torque available if you really floor it.
And as you say, in daily driving conditions that exist (congestion, speed limits etc) “for 99.9%” drivers, 0-60 in around 5 seconds is good enough and far better than many other cars

 

[USMA81]

I have an idea about the issue of “lag.” I’m going to be pedantic here; I’m an engineer. It’s physics. Acceleration is the first derivative of speed, how quickly speed is changing, up or down. “Jerk” is the first derivative of acceleration, how quickly acceleration is changing, up or down. Acceleration is the pressure you feel when pushed back in the seat. Jerk is the increasing pressure of being pushed back in the seat. I suggest that the “lag” feeling really is a lower level of jerk, a slower rate of change in acceleration when starting from a stop.

Jerk matters most at the initial moment of acceleration, the first second or less. At this point, jerk is at a maximum value since the vehicle is going from zero acceleration (stopped) to maximum acceleration (torque is at maximum value at zero rpm in an electric motor). After the first second, acceleration begins to decline as torque drops and aerodynamic forces increase; so jerk goes from a maximum positive value to slightly negative quickly.

The amount of jerk one feels is, I believe, is a function of the vehicle’s weight and torque. The Tesla Model S Performance weighs 2,170 kg. with 967 Nm of torque. The Tesla Model Y Performance is 1,995 kg and 660 Nm. Here are the numbers for the 4, 4S and Turbo (weight will vary a bit with options):

4 - 2,380 kg and 650 Nm
4S - 2,380 kg and 820 Nm
Turbo - 2,380 kg and 1,130 Nm

Based on this, if all of this is correct, the 4 will feel a bit less jerk than the Y Performance (same torque, Macan heavier). One would need to drive the Turbo at max acceleration to feel the same or more jerk than the Tesla S Performance.

Every vehicle has a maximum jerk value. The impression of “lag” will depend on comparisons of jerk between vehicles at maximum acceleration. If the jerk value is lower in one vehicle, it will feel “laggy” in comparison. Also, if the jerk value is too high, this could be a problem as well. Very high initial jerk will throw your head against the headrest; there are reports of a few drivers getting nauseous when driving the turbo hard (I’m not suggesting the Turbo has too much; just that very high jerk isn’t always better).

 

[nischalr]

I have an idea about the issue of “lag.” I’m going to be pedantic here; I’m an engineer. It’s physics. Acceleration is the first derivative of speed, how quickly speed is changing, up or down. “Jerk” is the first derivative of acceleration, how quickly acceleration is changing, up or down. Acceleration is the pressure you feel when pushed back in the seat. Jerk is the increasing pressure of being pushed back in the seat. I suggest that the “lag” feeling really is a lower level of jerk, a slower rate of change in acceleration when starting from a stop.

Jerk matters most at the initial moment of acceleration, the first second or less. At this point, jerk is at a maximum value since the vehicle is going from zero acceleration (stopped) to maximum acceleration (torque is at maximum value at zero rpm in an electric motor). After the first second, acceleration begins to decline as torque drops and aerodynamic forces increase; so jerk goes from a maximum positive value to slightly negative quickly.

The amount of jerk one feels is, I believe, is a function of the vehicle’s weight and torque. The Tesla Model S Performance weighs 2,170 kg. with 967 Nm of torque. The Tesla Model Y Performance is 1,995 kg and 660 Nm. Here are the numbers for the 4, 4S and Turbo (weight will vary a bit with options):

4 - 2,380 kg and 650 Nm
4S - 2,380 kg and 820 Nm
Turbo - 2,380 kg and 1,130 Nm

Based on this, if all of this is correct, the 4 will feel a bit less jerk than the Y Performance (same torque, Macan heavier). One would need to drive the Turbo at max acceleration to feel the same or more jerk than the Tesla S Performance.

Every vehicle has a maximum jerk value. The impression of “lag” will depend on comparisons of jerk between vehicles at maximum acceleration. If the jerk value is lower in one vehicle, it will feel “laggy” in comparison. Also, if the jerk value is too high, this could be a problem as well. Very high initial jerk will throw your head against the headrest; there are reports of a few drivers getting nauseous when driving the turbo hard (I’m not suggesting the Turbo has too much; just that very high jerk isn’t always better).

I really appreciate the detailed analysis.

I also think that the way Tesla tunes the sensitivity of the accelerator pedal is more "touchy" to give a more pronounced initial response as a part of their identity and wow factor, but it is a little less natural or forgiving. I think the Porsche way of tuning the pedal is more mature, and progressive but may give less "wow" factor as compared to Tesla when swapping back and forth. That is my impression from driving a Tesla Model Y and Macan 4 and Turbo. This tuning of the pedal seems independent of the actual acceleration numbers that can be calculated with the numbers I think?

 

[cottony]

I really appreciate the detailed analysis.

I also think that the way Tesla tunes the sensitivity of the accelerator pedal is more "touchy" to give a more pronounced initial response as a part of their identity and wow factor, but it is a little less natural or forgiving. I think the Porsche way of tuning the pedal is more mature, and progressive but may give less "wow" factor as compared to Tesla when swapping back and forth. That is my impression from driving a Tesla Model Y and Macan 4 and Turbo. This tuning of the pedal seems independent of the actual acceleration numbers that can be calculated with the numbers I think?

i totally agree. i think the 4S is fast but like low-key fast.

when i accelerated on the highway, my first thought was "wow this is lackluster" but then i looked at the speedometer and i was already at 90 mph lol.

i think the macan is also much quieter and more stable than the tesla so it still feels "normal" at higher speeds.

 

[PrudentOcean]

I also remember a comment from someone with a BMW iX who said the iX felt faster while it was in fact slower than his Macan (I think it was a Turbo). So maybe Porsche is conservative during the initial acceleration but the car has the torque to make up for it once it gets moving.

 

[Hawk_Tuah]

Compared to what?

Compared to other EVs in this price range

 

[iPadOnWheels]

Auto-hold- this exists, you just need to press firmly on the brake and auto-hold will activate. If you press lightly, the car will resume rolling if you start releasing the press.

Thanks, I did not know this feature.

 

[USMA81]

Compared to other EVs in this price range

Are there any other EV’s in this price range? . I looked at several competitors and you were accurate: the 4 was near the lower end of the horsepower range of several, competing brands. To be fair, the 4S too could be called “underpowered” in comparison to a few other EV’s, like the BMW iX, the Cybertruck and the Tesla X.

Still, in the context of this discussion about a feeling of “lag” off the line, horsepower has little impact on that. It is torque and weight that matter more.

In your post, you said the your S had no lag. It may feel that way, but read my prior post. All vehicles have higher or lower jerk (what I believe we are calling “lag”). So I think the 4S might feel “laggy“ to the Macan Turbo owner or the Cybertruck owner, both of which have more torque, just as the others might feel that way about the 4. Yet any feeling of lag is only one of ten thousand impressions of ownership, and one that most owners won’t experience. They won’t be regularly driving in a way in which they experience this.

I probably was a bit flippant in my reply. I respect that you feel a lag in the 4 and that it is important to you. Yet as I’ve posted many times (and will stop now), I think all the Porsche Macan EV trim levels have really good performance, engineered to perform well above what the driver will use most of the time. I’m sure you didn’t mean it this way, but to call one trim level “underpowered” smacks of a bit of snobbery, especially in light of the terrific performance that most EV’s offer in general, and Porsches in particular.

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