Macan 4S EV, coming from a Tesla Model Y: Thoughts?

[taycanstuff]

IMHO the 4S has some lag compared to Tesla in sport mode +/- boost, it's still fast enough, but the Porsche drives more like a car rather then an on and off switch of a Tesla.

 

[evdriver2016]

IMHO the 4S has some lag compared to Tesla in sport mode +/- boost, it's still fast enough, but the Porsche drives more like a car rather then an on and off switch of a Tesla.

I think Porsche might be clinging to the thought that how a car drives is how a gas engine car drives, when people are quickly moving to how a car drives is how a EV/Tesla drives.

I really think Porsche need to discover what a Porsche EV drives like alone and not what a Porsche EV trying to drive like a Gas Porsche drives like.

I’m really looking forward to what they come up with. What is the Porsche version of one pedal driving? What is the Porsche version of instant torque? I hope they are working on these things.

 

[daveo4EV]

I think Porsche might be clinging to the thought that how a car drives is how a gas engine car drives, when people are quickly moving to how a car drives is how a EV/Tesla drives.

I really think Porsche need to discover what a Porsche EV drives like alone and not what a Porsche EV trying to drive like a Gas Porsche drives like.

I’m really looking forward to what they come up with. What is the Porsche version of one pedal driving? What is the Porsche version of instant torque? I hope they are working on these things.

one pedal driving - Porsche is morally opposed to this - I've had discussions with "friends" i know inside the company - until there is a major change in leadership you will _NOT_ see this anymore than you have now with the "regen" setting in Macan EV (light regen upon accelerator pedal release)

Porsche version of "instant torque" - it's called launch control - so you've seen it if you've done launch control.

they are working on these things and in their minds they have already delivered them:

Macan EV has "light" one pedal driving with "auto-regen" setting - existing feature
Macan EV has instant torque with launch control

they are "done" and have delivered their versions of those capabilities.

 

[dgkhn]

(Edit: I wrote the below before I saw @daveo4EV's response immediately above.)

I think Porsche might be clinging to the thought that how a car drives is how a gas engine car drives, when people are quickly moving to how a car drives is how a EV/Tesla drives.

I really think Porsche need to discover what a Porsche EV drives like alone and not what a Porsche EV trying to drive like a Gas Porsche drives like.

I’m really looking forward to what they come up with. What is the Porsche version of one pedal driving? What is the Porsche version of instant torque? I hope they are working on these things.

What I don't understand is why Porsche doesn't give the driver the option; fine, default to smoother ICE-like acceleration from rest and no one-pedal driving, but give the driver the option to drive it "like an EV." I don't think Launch Control is that. Honestly, I almost never floor a car from rest anyway (I have not done so in my Macan 4 even once so I don't even know how it would respond), and compared to my previous Macan GTS the Macan 4 has copious torque response when in motion, so personally I'm not complaining about acceleration.

But, for goodness sake, just give us a B-mode option; I assume that Porsche has a reason for not having done so, but for the life of me I can't figure out what that reason would be. Just let us toggle between regular low-regen mode and B-mode with a second pull into Drive (as e.g. I know first-hand Volvo, and I infer Audi, do very effectively.)

 

[Dragon Tourniquet]

But, for goodness sake, just give us a B-mode option; I assume that Porsche has a reason for not having done so, but for the life of me I can't figure out what that reason would be. Just let us toggle between regular low-regen mode and B-mode with a second pull into Drive (as e.g. I know first-hand Volvo, and I infer Audi, do very effectively.)

One of the things I really liked about the i-Pace was the ability to turn off regen from lifting off the accelerator, and also turn off creep mode. Such simple things, but they really made it enjoyable to drive.

 

[dgkhn]

one pedal driving - Porsche is morally opposed to this

@daveo4EV, I realize you personally are not answering for Porsche--and I'm not challenging your statement about how Porsche feels--but seriously, isn't this absurd? This is a "moral issue" (your words, I assume, but probably an accurate framing)? As I've said before, like Sport Sound is Porsche DNA? How many people ARE buying a Macan because it doesn't have one-pedal driving as an available drive mode, vs how many people are NOT buying a Macan EV for that reason?

It's just so weird: in some respects Porsche seems to understand how to make a better ELECTRIC vehicle (they already know how to make a great vehicle, and they've kept that). For example: the great DC-charging curve, 800-volt architecture, split battery pack, dual charge ports, decent route planning, avoidance of over-reliance on the center screen, high regeneration capacity, low CD. And in others, not (the 9.6kw AC charging fiasco, lack of one-pedal driving option).

 

[jsaccio]

one pedal driving - Porsche is morally opposed to this - I've had discussions with "friends" i know inside the company - until there is a major change in leadership you will _NOT_ see this anymore than you have now with the "regen" setting in Macan EV (light regen upon accelerator pedal release)

Porsche version of "instant torque" - it's called launch control - so you've seen it if you've done launch control.

they are working on these things and in their minds they have already delivered them:

Macan EV has "light" one pedal driving with "auto-regen" setting - existing feature
Macan EV has instant torque with launch control

they are "done" and have delivered their versions of those capabilities.

Instant torque has a very different meaning to me than launch control. I don't find launch control practical in normal driving. I want instant torque when I'm waiting to make a left turn with oncoming traffic or crossing a busy two-way intersection from a stop. I would not be using launch control for these real life situations. My question about the 4S is based on this.

As I mentioned the Base 4 has a real lag when punching it off the line. The Turbo does not. In the 4S I have on order I'm not looking for neck snapping instant torque, like in previous Tesla Model S I have owned, just hopefully something better than the Base 4.

 

[Hawk_Tuah]

My question about the 4S is based on this.

I’ll try tomorrow. Haven’t had the chance to test the acceleration from stand. from what I’ve experienced the 4s is very responsive and has a very aggressive punch. Far more aggressive then the MYP and on par with the plaid. I would describe it as a sharp punch. But the plaid is much quicker ofc.

 

[bbmertz]

I’ll try tomorrow. Haven’t had the chance to test the acceleration from stand. from what I’ve experienced the 4s is very responsive and has a very aggressive punch. Far more aggressive then the MYP and on par with the plaid. I would describe it as a sharp punch. But the plaid is much quicker ofc.

I’ll test it out as well since I’m interested to see how it compares with the Macan 4 I previously test drove as well as the Tesla S & Y which I previously owned.

Unfortunately I was in traffic when driving my new 4S home from the dealership yesterday and it will be raining the next few days, so I may not have a chance to test the off-the-line acceleration until Monday.

 

[Awaz]

I understand some like one-pedal drive, but personally, having used one pedal drive before in my previous BMW i4, I much prefer this traditional braking method.
I use coating in my Macan EV a lot in urban driving, and ACC on long drives.

 

[ColdCase]

I have driven EVs for while and am quite familiar with one pedal driving. Except for entertainment value under some conditions, I hate it. Don't give me you hate one pedal because you don't drive it BS. It is something like trying to smoothly drive a high compression manual transmission big block at slow speeds.

We seem to have a vocal bunch of technocrats here that don't seem to understand 80% of the consumers. Not unusual for forums. But the typical consumer wants a comfortable, easy to drive, durable, reliable transportation appliance. As a group, they purchase the most cars by far. They hate one pedal and it drives potential buyers from EV to ICE vehicles in droves. (range anxiety is another factor of course, but we are talking consumers interested enough to take a look and test drive an EV)

Technocrats and competitive by nature drivers may love the one pedal games that can be played. But these technocrats are video gamers, not drivers. They are wowed by and praise the video game HMI of the Tesla as well as their hands off, the car driving itself goal.

So I understand that, even though Its difficult to drive one pedal smoothly, you can entertain yourself, by seeing just how little brake one needs to return home or timing that full stop before reaching the light. Makes my city commute a little more fun, but not the winding mostly deserted country roads. I understand that stabbing the throttle and planting passengers in their seats is a thrill, but the vehicle is difficult to control for the typical driver. .....Technocrats

I seem to recall a one pedal offering in the 50s that failed dramatically.

The driver enthusiast feel good on the road type seem to be attracted to Porsche cars and the Porsche way. These drivers appreciate the nuances of fine handling, controllable power, and driving for driving sake. Perhaps also appreciating solid/quality construction. These enthusiasts keep it simple and drive miles of miles, although regulations are making it harder and harder to do.

So perhaps step back a bit from the vocal but minority one pedal high horse. Porsche company owners/management know how to build a car for their enthusiast driver market, even those with families. They are not loosing sales. They prefer to do one thing right and minimize the distractions like one pedal BS… and make some money. Let others compromise to attempt to satisfy everyone and make vehicles mediocre in every respect. Just my 2 cents.

 

[ros]

I have driven EVs for while and am quite familiar with one pedal driving. Except for entertainment value under some conditions, I hate it. Don't give me you hate one pedal because you don't drive it BS. It is something like trying to smoothly drive a high compression manual transmission big block at slow speeds.

We seem to have a vocal bunch of technocrats here that don't seem to understand 80% of the consumers. Not unusual for forums. But the typical consumer wants a comfortable, easy to drive, durable, reliable transportation appliance. As a group, they purchase the most cars by far. They hate one pedal and it drives potential buyers from EV to ICE vehicles in droves. (range anxiety is another factor of course, but we are talking consumers interested enough to take a look and test drive an EV)

Technocrats and competitive by nature drivers may love the one pedal games that can be played. But these technocrats are video gamers, not drivers. They are wowed by and praise the video game HMI of the Tesla as well as their hands off, the car driving itself goal.

So I understand that, even though Its difficult to drive one pedal smoothly, you can entertain yourself, by seeing just how little brake one needs to return home or timing that full stop before reaching the light. Makes my city commute a little more fun, but not the winding mostly deserted country roads. I understand that stabbing the throttle and planting passengers in their seats is a thrill, but the vehicle is difficult to control for the typical driver. .....Technocrats

I seem to recall a one pedal offering in the 50s that failed dramatically.

The driver enthusiast feel good on the road type seem to be attracted to Porsche cars and the Porsche way. These drivers appreciate the nuances of fine handling, controllable power, and driving for driving sake. Perhaps also appreciating solid/quality construction. These enthusiasts keep it simple and drive miles of miles, although regulations are making it harder and harder to do.

So perhaps step back a bit from the vocal but minority one pedal high horse. Porsche company owners/management know how to build a car for their enthusiast driver market, even those with families. They are not loosing sales. They prefer to do one thing right and minimize the distractions like one pedal BS… and make some money. Let others compromise to attempt to satisfy everyone and make vehicles mediocre in every respect. Just my 2 cents.

Your post is pretty opinionated, generally doesn’t reflect reality and assigns “tags” (technocrats) to what is not so polar.

I, for example, do appreciate Macan EV for 95% of what it is. But I was really hoping for “no accel lag” because this is something that I really don’t like about ICEs. There is nothing about Porsche existential philosophy or “technocratic”, just nice EV capability that Porsche decided to “mute” for some reason.

 

[daveo4EV]

decelerating the car causes "weight transfer" - driving at the limits you can't have un-anticipated weight transfer - and one pedal driving makes the accelerator and the level of weight transfer unpredictable because the amount of regen varies with vehicle inertia…

I've driven on track with one-pedal driving in my 2018 Model 3 Performance and the variability of regen with regards to one pedal driving from lap to lap to lap is lap-time-consistency killer - because it's a different amount every time going into turn 2 @ Laguna Seca for example.

Consistent laps is a hallmark of a well designed car and an excellent driver - Porsche strives to produce a product that an excellent driver can squeeze excellent performance out of. Excellent drivers require the car to be predictable at the limits - and one pedal driving is not predictable at the limits - it's simply not.

I'm not saying Porsche is right on this car for the broad market - but there is no test driver in Porsche's employ that will give feedback during vehicle development and track testing that will suggest one-pedal drivign is what they want from the car…

• Accelerator make car go - get off of accelerator (lifting) off causes minor weight transfer - but always the same amount
• Brake pedal make car decelerate with a high degree of finesse possible is how one squeezes optimal lap times out of a course like the Nurburgring
  • with a high degree of finesse possible there is minute levels of weight transfer control possible - this is nearly impossible with one-pedal driving
  • NOTE: you gain lap time with your braking (less braking in fact) - not with the accelerator - the brakes are where you go faster…truth!
• also sometimes for car control you _MUST_ be able to coast - no weight transfer
  • zero weight transfer (after initial lift) is nearly impossible with one-pedal driving - as the point where you have neutral weigtht transfer changes as the car decelerates
    • "chasing" the "coasting" point is not what any driver wants in car control

given Porsche's history, focus, and goals - one pedal driving is not what you want for a vehicle with a high degree of control for weight transfer management, which is what is required for consistent high performance driving.

Having driven both types of cars Porsche is not wrong…but they are wrong about not having it be an option that can be defeated.

one pedal driving has no place/business in track/performance driving given it's lack of predictability - but there could be a driving-mode you put the car in that turns it off - Porsche's not quite there yet in terms of "mode"…and I'm not sure they will ever get there.

911's and Porsche's in particular are lauded by driving aficionado's for the level of driver control and this is their legacy - driving aficionado's will lambast Porsche for removing these control levels and that is their audience…one pedal driving is not a thing in that audience…and it makes car control very difficult - Porsche is not going to make car-control difficult

take an ice-driving or rally driving course (3+ days at least) and then please explain to me your love of one pedal driving - we wont' be having that conversation after you attend any car control course.

none of this matters or can be experience din street driving - you must be pushing a vehicle hard to experience the "needs" at these sorts of situations - but one pedal driving is "not welcome" going into the braking zone of turns 2, 6, 8a, 11 @ Laguna Seca for example - and certainly not helpful in terms of "consistent" lap times - it makes the car unpredictable for the same inputs.

Professional drivers (not me or anywhere close to me) can provide consistent laps times on any circuit (consistent to way way way less than 1/10th of a second variation) from lap to lap to lap to lap - it's amazing - they are paid for that consistency and the skills they have and awareness they have is amazing - that level of consistency requires consistency in the car's behaviors for the same actions/driver-inputs - in 14 years of hobby track driving I've not met a pro-driver that finds one-pedal driving consistent enough to meet the requirements of their profession. It's like telling a chef to prep really great food with a dull knife and/or an oven with variable/random amounts of temperature control.

having driven the Taycan and Model 3 at various california tracks, on track across the course of a day. The model 3 is a mess when it comes to lap times and consistency, and the Taycan was "a Porsche" and very consistent lap to lap to lap. One of the many reasons the Taycan was better on track was the lack of one-pedal driving the ability to provide minute levels of braking finesse with left foot braking…not possible with Model 3 and causes vehicle "errors" and lack of predictable outcomes.

Porsche will not design a car that is that inconsistent (even if it never comes up in street driving).

when drifting a 2021 911 GT3 Cupcar with studded ice tires on a complex technical ice-course at track speeds through the woods of finland where a mistake will be rewarded by hitting a tree, one pedal driving is not your friend…both the CupCar and 911 GT3 in this picture were masterful and predictable - an absolute requirement for that level of driving - anything less than masterful is not a Porsche.

NOTE: clear and consistent inputs to "coast" the car approaching and/or during some corners is a requirement to successfully navigate some corners - "too much lift" out of the accelerator _WILL_ cause a loss of control on ice - one pedal driving is by definition "too much lift" in these circumstances - as a driver I must _KNOW_ that getting out of the accelerator will be "neutral" weight transfer so that I can be off power, but not yet "on the brakes"…virtually impossible with one pedal driving - and not something you want to manage while doing several other things in a high performance environment…it's absolutely _ESSENTIAL_ i can be 100% neutral with the car with ice driving - neither accelerating or decelerating lest I will actually lose control…the neutral point of the accelerator with one pedal driving is constantly changing - it's simply dangerous for ice driving at speed for this level of lack of control. And remember tables stakes for ice driving if you get it wrong is wrapping the $250k sports car around a tree…no one pedal driving please - why would anyone think that's a good idea?

the gentleman above on the right _IS_ a driver hired by Tesla to do some of the early Plaid laps @ Nurburgring - and he was still employed by Tesla when this picture was taking in 2020. His opinions about one pedal driving and it affect on vehicle dynamics and predictability was at odds with his employer, but they couldn't dispute the impact it was having on laps times so he was continuing to work with Tesla to develop track mode - and one of the things track mode does is lessne/remove the amount of regen from one pedal driving.

anyways it's a driver/control and consistency of input concern which is why you wont' see it from Porsche anytime soon - especially if their next EV is the 718…where sports car feel and control with be of paramount importance.

YMMV and my $0.02 - but Porsche _IS_ morally opposed to one pedal driving - and their entire set of Professional text drivers and engineers are also - so there is "no voice" inside Porsche that is going to say "hey this one pedal driving really is better on the ring and we need to get that even better" - because factually it's not better, it had to be turned off.

sign up for an attend any multi-day rally school or ice driving school - Porsche's offerings are excellent - and after drifting cars (or Porsche's) for 2 or more days - none of you will come back fans of one-pedal driving - I promise you it's "not a feature" if you're driving off street.

 

[daveo4EV]

@daveo4EV, I realize you personally are not answering for Porsche--and I'm not challenging your statement about how Porsche feels--but seriously, isn't this absurd? This is a "moral issue" (your words, I assume, but probably an accurate framing)? As I've said before, like Sport Sound is Porsche DNA? How many people ARE buying a Macan because it doesn't have one-pedal driving as an available drive mode, vs how many people are NOT buying a Macan EV for that reason?

It's just so weird: in some respects Porsche seems to understand how to make a better ELECTRIC vehicle (they already know how to make a great vehicle, and they've kept that). For example: the great DC-charging curve, 800-volt architecture, split battery pack, dual charge ports, decent route planning, avoidance of over-reliance on the center screen, high regeneration capacity, low CD. And in others, not (the 9.6kw AC charging fiasco, lack of one-pedal driving option).

also I don't think you can make the case lack of one pedal driving is hurting Macan EV sales.

It's non-issue in purchasing decisions would be my bet. There are many many more issues affecting Macan EV sales that have greater impact than lack of one-pedal driving which is "an EV enthusiasts" talking point that is mostly meaningless to the vast majority of people.

 

[alxman]

I have driven EVs for while and am quite familiar with one pedal driving. Except for entertainment value under some conditions, I hate it. Don't give me you hate one pedal because you don't drive it BS. It is something like trying to smoothly drive a high compression manual transmission big block at slow speeds.

We seem to have a vocal bunch of technocrats here that don't seem to understand 80% of the consumers. Not unusual for forums. But the typical consumer wants a comfortable, easy to drive, durable, reliable transportation appliance. As a group, they purchase the most cars by far. They hate one pedal and it drives potential buyers from EV to ICE vehicles in droves. (range anxiety is another factor of course, but we are talking consumers interested enough to take a look and test drive an EV)

Technocrats and competitive by nature drivers may love the one pedal games that can be played. But these technocrats are video gamers, not drivers. They are wowed by and praise the video game HMI of the Tesla as well as their hands off, the car driving itself goal.

So I understand that, even though Its difficult to drive one pedal smoothly, you can entertain yourself, by seeing just how little brake one needs to return home or timing that full stop before reaching the light. Makes my city commute a little more fun, but not the winding mostly deserted country roads. I understand that stabbing the throttle and planting passengers in their seats is a thrill, but the vehicle is difficult to control for the typical driver. .....Technocrats

I seem to recall a one pedal offering in the 50s that failed dramatically.

The driver enthusiast feel good on the road type seem to be attracted to Porsche cars and the Porsche way. These drivers appreciate the nuances of fine handling, controllable power, and driving for driving sake. Perhaps also appreciating solid/quality construction. These enthusiasts keep it simple and drive miles of miles, although regulations are making it harder and harder to do.

So perhaps step back a bit from the vocal but minority one pedal high horse. Porsche company owners/management know how to build a car for their enthusiast driver market, even those with families. They are not loosing sales. They prefer to do one thing right and minimize the distractions like one pedal BS… and make some money. Let others compromise to attempt to satisfy everyone and make vehicles mediocre in every respect. Just my 2 cents.

I have driven EVs for while and am quite familiar with one pedal driving. Except for entertainment value under some conditions, I hate it. Don't give me you hate one pedal because you don't drive it BS. It is something like trying to smoothly drive a high compression manual transmission big block at slow speeds.

We seem to have a vocal bunch of technocrats here that don't seem to understand 80% of the consumers. Not unusual for forums. But the typical consumer wants a comfortable, easy to drive, durable, reliable transportation appliance. As a group, they purchase the most cars by far. They hate one pedal and it drives potential buyers from EV to ICE vehicles in droves. (range anxiety is another factor of course, but we are talking consumers interested enough to take a look and test drive an EV)

Technocrats and competitive by nature drivers may love the one pedal games that can be played. But these technocrats are video gamers, not drivers. They are wowed by and praise the video game HMI of the Tesla as well as their hands off, the car driving itself goal.

So I understand that, even though Its difficult to drive one pedal smoothly, you can entertain yourself, by seeing just how little brake one needs to return home or timing that full stop before reaching the light. Makes my city commute a little more fun, but not the winding mostly deserted country roads. I understand that stabbing the throttle and planting passengers in their seats is a thrill, but the vehicle is difficult to control for the typical driver. .....Technocrats

I seem to recall a one pedal offering in the 50s that failed dramatically.

The driver enthusiast feel good on the road type seem to be attracted to Porsche cars and the Porsche way. These drivers appreciate the nuances of fine handling, controllable power, and driving for driving sake. Perhaps also appreciating solid/quality construction. These enthusiasts keep it simple and drive miles of miles, although regulations are making it harder and harder to do.

So perhaps step back a bit from the vocal but minority one pedal high horse. Porsche company owners/management know how to build a car for their enthusiast driver market, even those with families. They are not loosing sales. They prefer to do one thing right and minimize the distractions like one pedal BS… and make some money. Let others compromise to attempt to satisfy everyone and make vehicles mediocre in every respect. Just my 2 cents.

I’m not sure I agree. My wife, who isn’t a technocrat, absolutely loves the one-pedal driving feature in her Tesla Model X. She’s a conservative driver but often appreciates the ability to merge into traffic or pass slower vehicles using the car’s immediate torque and acceleration. While I’m okay driving her car, I personally prefer the driving experience of the Macan EV or other sporty ICE vehicles.

I’m not sure how technically challenging it would be to offer one-pedal driving as an option, but it would be a great feature to have. I probably wouldn’t use it myself, but my wife would certainly appreciate it when driving my car. I understand that one-pedal driving might not align with “Porsche’s way,” but it could be a feature that attracts more potential buyers to the vehicle.

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