[North American] - Macan does NOT support 11 kW charging??? Home / Residential charging update (using Tesla Universal Wall Charger)

[whitex]

11 kW on baord charger is AC

DC charging is upto 270 kW - and my Macan has done 275 kW once…

this has nothing to do with the DC charger.

@krissrock , another way to explain it is this. Your car battery can only charge from a DC charger. Your car comes with a built-in DC charger (a.k.a. onboard charger) which is powered by AC from the outside of the car (from the EVSE, a.k.a. wall connector). This onboard charger is typically maxing out at between 6KW and 19.2KW. However, you battery can also charge up to 270KW from an external (not onboard) DC charger, which is what all the fast DC charging station are - they are just a much bigger version of what your onboard charger is. As a matter of fact, the original Tesla Superchargers were literally made out of 12 onboard chargers in a single supercharger enclosure (each onboard charger was 9.6KW, so times 12, the Supercharger had a max charge rate of 115.2KW).

 

[whitex]

So that means you have 2 EVSE’s on one 240 volt line with a 100A breaker? I’m just wondering because we have 1 Tesla charger and I need to plan for when I get the Macan. I’m not sure whether to add another circuit which is expensive, use an adapter (which will only allow to charge one vehicle at a time plus plugging/unplugging each vehicle), or use a splitter like the NeoCharge.

Yes, 3 EVSE's actually. Read @daveo4EV extensive post above for details. Your best path forward will depend on which EVSE you already have.

 

[whitex]

So you're saying that if my EVSE is set to 40 amps, and the car tries to draw more, the EVSE will let it?

Yes, up to the circuit breaker capacity (which will trip if exceeded).

Or even worse, if I have a 16 amp EVSE and hook it to my Macan, and there is some communication error, the EVSE would let the car draw more?

No, communication error should cause the EVSE to cut the power to the car completely.

That does not seem like a safe design to me.

EVSE is essentially a glorified extension cord with GFCI protection, ability to detect when the car is connected and therefore only turn power on when all pins are connected, and ability to tell the car in real time what is the the maximum current consumption can be. There is a additional capability to advertise ventilation capabilities of the site, but that does not apply to your Macan. All those capabilities are specified in the SAE J1772 standard.

 

[dgkhn]

this is very very helpful!!! 11 kW mentioned in the manual - wow - Porsche really screwed up this one!

Now that I read this more carefully (and note the comments about charging overhead below the chart): 95 KWh/11.5 hours = 8.3 kw net charging rate. 95 kWh/10 hours=9.5 kw net charging rate. I wonder if the rate being reported by the car is the gross power pull or the net charging rate. I'm getting a reported 9.1 - 9.3 kw on my 44 amp EVSE. What are folks seeing on their 40 amp EVSEs: same, or less? What about on 48 amp set ups? And keeping in mind, 240v x 48 amps is 11.5 kW, not 11; or another way of looking at this is 11 kW/240 v is 45.8 amps, not 48. A lot of potential for ambiguity here.

 

[daveo4EV]

I see 9.3/9.4/9.5 kW reported by the vehicle on my 48 amp EVSE
I see 9.3/9.4/9.5 kW reported by the vehicle on my Porsche 40 amp EVSE (PMCC)

the 48 amp EVSE has the same charge rate as the 40 amp EVSE…in both cases it's seems to be reporting the "raw" power being provided to the vehicle.

 

[whitex]

I'm getting a reported 9.1 - 9.3 kw on my 44 amp EVSE.

What EVSE model are you using and what is the circuit/breaker size to which it is connected to? The reason I am asking is because 44A is a very atypical number for a North American EVSE. I'm 99% sure you cannot even signal 44A limit using J1772 protocol, so the EVSE would have to talk ISO15118 (PLug-And-Charge which Macan would have) or Tesla proprietary protocol (only applicable to Teslas), both of which allow much finer grain current limits.

That said, one thing to note: for AC,
Power[KW] = Voltage[V] * Current [A] * Power Factor
Power Factor should be close to 1 for EV charging, so if the car is reporting pre-losses number, and the car is in fact pulling 44A, that would mean your voltage is 207-211V AC, which is low unless the EVSE is on a 3-phase power (typically found in business rather than residential locales). This could mean you have poor power regulation from your electricity provider, but it could also mean you have a problem with your wiring which is causing a larger than expected voltage drop when the car is pulling 44A. If that is the case, some part of your wiring (wherever the voltage is dropping) will start heating up, which could be dangerous.

 

[whitex]

I see 9.3/9.4/9.5 kW reported by the vehicle on my 48 amp EVSE
I see 9.3/9.4/9.5 kW reported by the vehicle on my Porsche 40 amp EVSE (PMCC)

the 48 amp EVSE has the same charge rate as the 40 amp EVSE…in both cases it's seems to be reporting the "raw" power being provided to the vehicle.

It looks like the car is reporting raw. The variation between 9.3-9.5 is from your house supply voltage variation (if you're charging a Tesla at the same time, it will tell you the mains voltage).

Sounds like the car is limiting itself to 40A (or 40.7A). Have you tried using a lower power EVSE (e.g. 32A) and see what the car shows. Note that using PMCC, the charger is probably not u sing J1772 signaling, especially if it can show you current SoC on the PMCC, so the Macan may behave differently on PMCC vs. regular J1772 EVSE.

 

[dgkhn]

It looks like the car is reporting raw. The variation between 9.3-9.5 is from your house supply voltage variation (if you're charging a Tesla at the same time, it will tell you the mains voltage).

Sounds like the car is limiting itself to 40A (or 40.7A). Have you tried using a lower power EVSE (e.g. 32A) and see what the car shows. Note that using PMCC, the charger is probably not u sing J1772 signaling, especially if it can show you current SoC on the PMCC, so the Macan may behave differently on PMCC vs. regular J1772 EVSE.

Below may be TLDR, but I would appreciate those to whom this matters in detail read the whole thing and comment.

Silly me; I realized last night that I can adjust my own EVSE. I have a ChargePoint Home Flex, that lets you set the current rate. I am hardwired on a 60 amp breaker, so the EVSE can be set to any level 48 amps and below.

Why is it set to 44 amps? I've done a lot of reading about this: according to what I've read, even though I have cable rated for 60 amps, the ampacity of my 6 gauge copper circuit is actually rated at 55 amps, not 60 (I think maybe because it's because it's in cable, not individual wires in conduit). This is not truly explained anywhere, and seems to be up for much debate, but to be on the safe side, I set the EVSE to 44 amps. (If anyone cares, and it's off topic: part of the confusion seems to be that technically this circuit should have a 55 amp breaker, but there is no such thing; code in this situation allows moving up to the next highest breaker that is available, which is 60 amps. Now my electrician says, "you have a 60 amp breaker, so you can have a 48 amp continuous draw." But the problem is, the only reason there is a 60 amp breaker is because there's no such thing as a 55 amp breaker.)

This is one of the reasons I assumed that EVSEs can control the amperage directly. How is the EVSE signaling 44 amps to the car if that is not a J1772 signal? If it can't signal 44 amps, how does it supply 44 amps? Now that I better understand the signaling issue, I think I'll change it back to 48 amps. The Macan is not taking that anyway!

Anyway, I can match @daveo4EV and go one better. Here is what I am seeing:

9.1/9.2/9.3 kW reported by the car, and 9.2/9.3/9.4 kW reported by the EVSE, regardless of whether the EVSE is set to 40 amps, 44 amps, or 48 amps.

BTW, I don't know the actual voltage at the EVSE. (I was suspicious of the Macan's low charging rate, and I've asked my electrician to check the voltage, but that hasn't happened yet. He did comment that my house is close to the transformer, and I should be getting a full 240 v at the breakers). The ChargePoint only reports power output. However, I have a second circuit in the garage that's 240v x 20 amps and has an even slightly longer run than the 60 amp circuit. I have a basic 16 amp EVSE plugged into that circuit (for my Volvo PHEV, which can only take 3.8 kw max). That EVSE has a screen that reports voltage and current, and last I checked it was reporting 240.5 volts, so ignoring potential voltage drop from the long run I believe I'm pretty close to 240 volts, and the limitations I'm seeing are from the Macan.

 

[daveo4EV]

Below may be TLDR, but I would appreciate those to whom this matters in detail read the whole thing and comment.

Silly me; I realized last night that I can adjust my own EVSE. I have a ChargePoint Home Flex, that lets you set the current rate. I am hardwired on a 60 amp breaker, so the EVSE can be set to any level 48 amps and below.

Why is it set to 44 amps? I've done a lot of reading about this: according to what I've read, even though I have cable rated for 60 amps, the ampacity of my 6 gauge copper circuit is actually rated at 55 amps, not 60 (I think maybe because it's because it's in cable, not individual wires in conduit). This is not truly explained anywhere, and seems to be up for much debate, but to be on the safe side, I set the EVSE to 44 amps. (If anyone cares, and it's off topic: part of the confusion seems to be that technically this circuit should have a 55 amp breaker, but there is no such thing; code in this situation allows moving up to the next highest breaker that is available, which is 60 amps. Now my electrician says, "you have a 60 amp breaker, so you can have a 48 amp continuous draw." But the problem is, the only reason there is a 60 amp breaker is because there's no such thing as a 55 amp breaker.)

This is one of the reasons I assumed that EVSEs can control the amperage directly. How is the EVSE signaling 44 amps to the car if that is not a J1772 signal? If it can't signal 44 amps, how does it supply 44 amps? Now that I better understand the signaling issue, I think I'll change it back to 48 amps. The Macan is not taking that anyway!

Anyway, I can match @daveo4EV and go one better. Here is what I am seeing:

9.1/9.2/9.3 amps reported by the car, and 9.2/9.3/9.4 amps reported by the EVSE, regardless of whether the EVSE is set to 40 amps, 44 amps, or 48 amps.

BTW, I don't know the actual voltage at the EVSE. (I was suspicious of the Macan's low charging rate, and I've asked my electrician to check the voltage, but that hasn't happened yet. He did comment that my house is close to the transformer, and I should be getting a full 240 v at the breakers). The ChargePoint only reports power output. However, I have a second circuit in the garage that's 240v x 20 amps and has an even slightly longer run than the 60 amp circuit. I have a basic 16 amp EVSE plugged into that circuit (for my Volvo PHEV, which can only take 3.8 kw max). That EVSE has a screen that reports voltage and current, and last I checked it was reporting 240.5 volts, so ignoring potential voltage drop from the long run I believe I'm pretty close to 240 volts, and the limitations I'm seeing are from the Macan.

this is _GREAT_ information - your voltage wont' vary much from your 16 amp EVSE - any chance you can test your Macan on your Volvo EVSE and see what it reports and the car reports? I'd save the money on an electrician - and simply purchase a multi-meter - any decent multi meter will show raw voltage…if your volvo unit shows voltage that close enough in this case…worse case would be a 5 volt drop (which is unlikely BTW more like a 1-2 volt drop)

235 volts * 40 amps = 9,400 watts or 9.4 kW
240 volts * 40 amps = 9,600 watts or 9.6 kW
245 volts * 40 amps = 9,800 watts or 9.8 kW

next step would be to adjust your ChargePoint flex to 32 amps (simulating a 40 amp breaker) - and 24 amps (simluating a 30 amp breaker)

ideal 32 amp charge rate is 7,680 watts or 7.68 kW raw
ideal 24 amp charge rate is 5,760 watts or 5.76 kW raw

those ideal numbers will obviously vary with actual voltage - but it would be interesting to see what the Macan reports inside the vehicle.

with voltage at 240.5 this data would be very very useful…

it does appear the North american Macan's delivered so far are capped at 40 amp charge rate - as to if that's hardware based, software based and/or intentional/un-intentional on Porsche's part is still a mystery - but we are most assuredly not seeing the 11 kW onboard charger that Porsche alludes to in Standard Equipment or the operating Manual…

I'm planning to test next week my local service dealership - they have Porsche Wall Charger's with 19.2 kW capacity (80 amp charger rate on a 100 amp breaker) - testing the Macan there will record the performance and give Porsche no where to hide by claiming it was not a Porsche EVSE (even thought that's a 100% spurious argument where EVSE's are involved.)

@dgkhn thank you again for this valuable data!! I'm simply aghast that Porsche can not seem to get their charging game right - the problems with the PMC+/PMCC and now Macan not behaving - and Porsche's continued lack of engagement in this critical EV space - yeah makes you wanna consider another brand.

if my Macan does not charge at 11 kW (or close to it) I'm going to log a "warranty" complaint and treat it as a "defect" - that will mean my local service tech will have to run it up the service support flag pole and it will eventually hit Porsche germany.

NOTE: for testing purposes all I'm pursing is that I never see a charge rate in excess of 9.6/9.8 kW reported by the vehicle - I'm not looking for a "full" 11 kW - anything over 9.8 kW will do - my Taycan used to report 10.46 kW - which after losses is about right for a raw 11 kW…so even a 10 kW or 10.2 kW charge rate would show the Macan supports more than 40 amps…but so far no one can report their Macan getting more than 9.5 kW - which is a 40 amp maximum L2 charge rate…
also I would not sweat the 4 amps on your 6 gauge wire…you should be fine.

we just need a number clearly in excess of 9.6 kW (which is the max rating for a 50 amp breaker 40 amp charge rate with 240V power source)…so far we can't get above that on _ANY_ EVSE tested

I'm calling it - for some reason the North American Macan is capped at a maximum 40 amp/9.6 kW charge rate and not at 48 amp/11 kW charge rate we were promised!

this is either a product defect or a misrepresentation of the product's capabilities! Porsche must clarify!

 

[daveo4EV]

9.1/9.2/9.3 amps reported by the car, and 9.2/9.3/9.4 amps reported by the EVSE, regardless of whether the EVSE is set to 40 amps, 44 amps, or 48 amps.

small nit…

what your'e seeing is 9.1/9.2/9.3 kilowatts (kW) not amps - these kW numbes correspond to approximately 40 amps @ 240 volts

the Macan appears unwilling to charge above a 40 amp limit - we have no idea why the cap? it's either hardware based (shipping with a 9.6 kW onboard charger) or software based (the vehicle's charging software is limiting max charge rate)

but it's pretty clear it refuses to charge at a higher rate…

 

[Salmonfisher]

I’m not worried re the 9.3 kw issue as all UK home chargers are limited to 7kw as we only have single phase to domestic properties. However it seems bizarre that it charges to 25% before the scheduled time. Does this happen if you the schedule the time on the charger not the car which is what I always do?

 

[DuckMan]

We have 60 amp breaker on dedicated 100 amp service feeding ChargePoint Flex set to 48 amp. Max we have seen pulled 9.46 kW at the very end of 60 kWh session . Garage is unheated so temps in the low 40s F during this charging session.

 

[daveo4EV]

We have 60 amp breaker on dedicated 100 amp service feeding ChargePoint Flex set to 48 amp. Max we have seen pulled 9.46 kW at the very end of 60 kWh session . Garage is unheated so temps in the low 40s F during this charging session.

9.46 kW is 40 amps or less - battery should charge at virtually any rate up until 97% SOC…I've never seen the charge rate drop below 20 kW at fast chargers until after 95% SOC - so with max rate being 19.2 kW with AC charging - battery SOC is an irrelevant data point for L2 charging of 11 kW or less…

your Macan appears to have the same 40 amp cap…and is not demonstrating an 11 kW charge rate.

can anyone North American or otherwise report that their Macan achieves more than 9.6 kW when charging from an AC power source?

 

[DuckMan]

Yup, just confirming the trend for the record.

 

[daveo4EV]

all - please vote in the new poll - I'd love some data…

https://www.macanevowners.com/forum/threads/poll-porsche-charging-specification-lie.18170/

Sponsored