[North American] - Macan does NOT support 11 kW charging??? Home / Residential charging update (using Tesla Universal Wall Charger)

[krissrock]

what amp circuit are you guys testing these on? 40, 50, 60 amps?

 

[daveo4EV]

60 amp circuit in the US - with an EVSE configured for a 60 amp circuit t- vehicle should charge at 10.8 kW as it does in Europe.

I've tested 3 separate EVSE's

1. Tesla Universal Wall Charger configured for 60 amp breaker - 48 amp charge rate - result - max charger rate 40 amp (9.3-9.5 kW indicated by Macan)
   1. this charger is known to operate at 11 kW with other EV's (Taycan, Audi eTron SUV, Tesla Model Y)
2. Tesla Gen1 Wall Charger @ Seascape Resort Aptos, CA - configured for 100/80 amp charge rate - max charge is 19.2 kW - Macan result is 9.3-9.5 kW indicated max charge rate
   1. this charger is known to operate at 11 kW with other EV's (Taycan, Audi eTron SUV, Tesla Model Y)
3. Blink public charger @ Santa Cruz Wharf - max charge rate 15 kW - Macan Result is 9.3-9.5 kW indicated max charge rate…
   1. this charger is known to operate at least at 11 kW with other EV's (Taycan, Audi eTron SUV)

my 2024 Macan Turbo EV appears to enforce a limit of 40 amps @ 240 volts - resulting in a maximum charge rate of 9.6 kW when standard equipment specification indicate a maximum on board charger of 11 kW…

50 amp circuit is 40 amp charge rate - or 9.6 kW "raw" - we're seeing 9.3-9.5 kW on 50 amp circuits as expected.
40 amp circuit is 32 amp charge rate - or 7.68 kW "raw" - I've not tested but have no reason to believe the Macan would not charge at 7.xx kW on a 40/32 amp circuit.

Macan Standard equipment is listed as 11 kW on board charger for North America - and yet we can not get it to charge above 9.6 kW (indicating a 40 amp cap/limit)

the limit is either hardware (porsche factory shipping w/9.6 kW onboard charger)

or

software - a configuration in the vehicle that limits the max charge rate in North America to 9.6 kW

I'm betting on a software/configuration limit - and I'm betting the limit is unintentional or confusion - Porsche historically has been confused between the maximum charge rate of a _MOBILE_ EVSE in North American being 9.6 kW, but the vehicle can charge faster than 9.6 kW with a non-Mobile hardwired EVSE - Taycan's spec's were confused for 4+ years - and local service claimed the maximum charge rate for Taycan was 9.6 kW even when I could demonstrate an 11 kW charge rate in their service bay with an unmodified Taycan…

my next step is to reproduce the charging limit at Porsche Service center with a Porsche Wall Charger known to be configured for maximum charge rate of 19.2 kW - they have at least 3 of these at my local deal for testing the 19.2 kW onboard chargers w/Taycan's

Demonstrating that my Macan can only charge at 9.6 kW or less on a Porsche EVSE configured for 19.2 kw should be enough to raise a ticket/question with PCNA for clarification from my local service guys - we'll see where it goes from there…

 

[ChrisFromUK]

HI

In the Porsche UK configuration tool it states:

Charging Technical Data:
Charging time (AC) at 9.6kW (0 to up to 100%) 11.5 h
Charging time (AC) at 11kW (0 - 100%) 10.0 h

In the US it states:

Charge Technical Data:
Charging time for alternating current (AC) with 9.6kW (0 to up to 100%) 11.5 hrs

It would seem intentional that the US models are limited to 9.6kW AC charging given they have omitted the 11Kw charge rate from the specifications - even if they have actually fitted an 11KW inverter.

That said, hopefully it is just a software limit that Porsche will provide a fix for at some point.

 

[daveo4EV]

HI

In the Porsche UK configuration tool it states:

Charging Technical Data:
Charging time (AC) at 9.6kW (0 to up to 100%) 11.5 h
Charging time (AC) at 11kW (0 - 100%) 10.0 h

In the US it states:

Charge Technical Data:
Charging time for alternating current (AC) with 9.6kW (0 to up to 100%) 11.5 hrs

It would seem intentional that the US models are limited to 9.6kW AC charging given they have omitted the 11Kw charge rate from the specifications - even if they have actually fitted an 11KW inverter.

That said, hopefully it is just a software limit that Porsche will provide a fix for at some point.

please see post #3 of this thread where I have copied the North American Standard Equipment list from the Porsche website for the Macan EV

https://www.macanevowners.com/forum...sla-universal-wall-charger.18123/#post-273413

it clearly lists an 11 kw onboard charger.

 

[ChrisFromUK]

I agree it lists an onboard 11kw charger.

Just pointing out that in the US, Porsche is only listing 9.6KW in the charging specifications and that seems to be what the actual limit is.

In the UK, they also list an 11KW charge rate in the specifications and it seems that rate can actually be achieved.

So my guess is that there is in fact an 11KW inverter in the US models but it is intentionally limited to 9.6 KW - don't know why that would be though.

 

[dgkhn]

It might be a setting, assuming the onboard charger is programmable (remember how enabling PnC required replacing the entire onboard charger on Taycans?). Furthermore however, remember that >9.6KW in Europe is only achievable with 3 phase AC connection. This means there are no single phase wires between the port and onboard charger which can handle sustained 48A current, they instead split the power between multiple wires (16A per phase max?). So it is possible that Macans in NA have wires only good for 40A, not 48A. It wouldn't be the first time Porsche speced the absolute minimum size of wiring for their spec, and in this case perhaps the NA spec was communicated internally as 9.6KW. So even if you find the setting, I would suggest verifying the AC wire gauges inside the car (from port to onboard charger) before enabling it.

Edit: I wrote the below before I saw ChrisFromUK's post immediately above. What Chris says is conceivably consistent with what I'm saying below, other than the fact that the owner's manual does show a 11 kW charging time.

It just doesn't seem that likely to me that Porsche would put a different charger or wiring in NA-bound Macan's from the rest of the world. (Though possible: for example current Volvo PHEV's have 3.6 kW built-in chargers in the U.S. and 7.2 kW in Europe).

The issue here is that in advertising materials and the spec's provided by Porsche on the US configurator, and also in the digital owner's manual, Porsche claims (or at least strongly implies) an 11 kW charger, but the cars only charge at less than 9.6 kW on all the EVSE's we've collectively tried. There is also sufficient evidence to show that Macan's in Europe will charge at near 11 kW if the connected equipment allows.

What I'm wondering is: is it possible that the Macan will only draw ~ 11 kW if it is on a three-phase circuit, but will limit itself to < 9.6 kW if it is on a single-phase circuit? Virtually all US domestic household circuits are single phase, but three phase is often supplied to industrial sites, and also, I believe larger residential and commercial sites (though it is stepped down on site for distribution).

I say this out of ignorance, but are there EVSE's in the U.S. that can be connected to a three-phase circuit, and if so, I wonder if the car would then allow the higher draw.

 

[dgkhn]

Can confirm it goes above 10 kW both in the app and the charger.
Had it above 11 kW.

Hmm, I'm just trying to interpret the display here. Is it meant to show the voltage and amperage in each phase on the circuit (L1, L2, L3)? So roughly say 222.2 volts x 15.7 amps x 3 = 10.5 kW +/- ? It's not clear to me that it would work that way (I didn't think that you could just add the current in each phase), but the numbers do seem to add up. (But then I am confused by the "Rated 32 amp" display.)

 

[ChrisFromUK]

Interesting observation David.

I think Rated 32A relates to each of the 3 phases being 32A which would give the normal 22kW limit of a 3 phase AC charger - at least here in Europe.

And I also wonder if you are on to something with regard to the charger wiring.

Lots of guesswork now but the Porsche might limit itself to a max of 9.6kW on a single phase even though it might support 11kW (or 10.5kW really) when spread over 3 phases of supply - which is what the screenshot is showing it can do.

I have no idea how US chargers might be wired to provide 11kW, are they always 3 phase or can a single phase supply provide >7.2kW (which would not happen in the EU/UK; it would always be 3 phase of up to 7.2kW each).

 

[SergeyIndy]

please see post #3 of this thread where I have copied the North American Standard Equipment list from the Porsche website for the Macan EV

https://www.macanevowners.com/forum...sla-universal-wall-charger.18123/#post-273413

it clearly lists an 11 kw onboard charger.

I have better than that. My dealer showed me Macan EV internal only documents and it clearly states 11kW AC integrated power box for the US. They are not technical enough to address my concern that I am only getting 9.6kW max when plugging in their Macan 4 at home.

 

[dgkhn]

Interesting observation David.

I think Rated 32A relates to each of the 3 phases being 32A which would give the normal 22kW limit of a 3 phase AC charger - at least here in Europe.

And I also wonder if you are on to something with regard to the charger wiring.

Lots of guesswork now but the Porsche might limit itself to a max of 9.6kW on a single phase even though it might support 11kW (or 10.5kW really) when spread over 3 phases of supply - which is what the screenshot is showing it can do.

I have no idea how US chargers might be wired to provide 11kW, are they always 3 phase or can a single phase supply provide >7.2kW (which would not happen in the EU/UK; it would always be 3 phase of up to 7.2kW each).

U.S. Residential wiring is typically single phase, but two 120v circuits. Most residential outlets are on a single 120v circuit (one hot wire to neutral) (typically 15 amps, but could be 20), but you can also combine two circuits for 240 volt. Depending on the age of the home, you might see breaker panels of 100 amps, 150 amps, 200 amps (most common these days) or occasionally 400 amps). With appropriate wiring and breakers, you would commonly see a 240v single phase 50 amp or 60 amp circuit going to an EVSE with the EVSE configured to allow 80% of the current rating (hence hardwired EVSE's typically at 240v x 48 amps single phase.) But some people do have circuits allowing twice that current.

 

[ColdCase]

I started reading through this thread and gave up. I dunno if it was mentioned that a 60 amp breaker on a wire run and outlet that only supports 50-55 amp continuous will have more resistance and a larger voltage drop at high current than wiring rated for 60 amp. This gets turned into heat and can get toasty, look at al those Leviton outlets melting and failing. So some of the observed variation here may be because of the voltage drop when high current is drawn. Often more current, more the drop until something breaks. Some may or may not be considering the EVSE loses.

I believe our area's code allows for a slightly larger breaker for intermittent use (like welders) but not continuous uses like EVSEs. But wire gauge for a given length is also specified.

I can jumper my Grizzl-E EVSE to a specific max current and that is the maximum it delivers regardless. The car plugs in, the EVSE says it can provide up to 42 amps, the car say's I'll take 42. There is a fail safe danger in software controlled EVSEs, however.

 

[daveo4EV]

I started reading through this thread and gave up. I dunno if it was mentioned that a 60 amp breaker on a wire run and outlet that only supports 50-55 amp continuous will have more resistance and a larger voltage drop at high current than wiring rated for 60 amp. This gets turned into heat and can get toasty, look at al those Leviton outlets melting and failing. So some of the observed variation here may be because of the voltage drop when high current is drawn. Often more current, more the drop until something breaks. Some may or may not be considering the EVSE loses.

I believe our area's code allows for a slightly larger breaker for intermittent use (like welders) but not continuous uses like EVSEs. But wire gauge for a given length is also specified.

I can jumper my Grizzl-E EVSE to a specific max current and that is the maximum it delivers regardless. The car plugs in, the EVSE says it can provide up to 42 amps, the car say's I'll take 42. There is a fail safe danger in software controlled EVSEs, however.

this is well reasoned but incorrect - Taycan and other EV's charge just fine at 11 kW - and any EVSE in North America over 50 amps (40 amp charger) rate is hardwired so no NEMA socket

this is pure and simple a f'up on Porsche's part - Taycan charges at 11 kW, Audi eTron charges at 11 kW - and even the 2024 Hybrid's and later charge at 11 kW - someone messed up somewhere - I also doubt they even have a 9.6 kW onboard charger in the supply chain as this is most likely a standardized part across the VW/Audi/Porsche product lines…

it's really really very simple.

setup an EVSE on 60 amp circuit breaker - hardwired
plug said EVSE into a vehicle with a 11 kW onboard charger
achieve 10.6 or greater kW while charging…

it's not hard to understand - and there are examples from the past 12 years of EV's that easily accomplish this.

the Macan is for some reasons capped at 40 amps - I doubt anyone in Porsche even knows why…but it's not correct.

 

[daveo4EV]

I don't know why everyone is fighting this - Porsche screwed up - not the first time and getting them to admit it will be impossible - but the car is capped at 9.6 kW - and that's a mistake.

 

[dgkhn]

I don't know why everyone is fighting this - Porsche screwed up - not the first time and getting them to admit it will be impossible - but the car is capped at 9.6 kW - and that's a mistake.

David,

All of a sudden you are a cynic*? I'll tell you why I personally would like to get to the bottom of this:

1. Like any respectable gearhead, I enjoy knowing what makes my car tick.
2. I like to get what I was promised. I had hardwired EVSE's installed in both my garages in anticipation of being able to charge at 11 kW in the Macan that I waited 9 months to receive. If I had known that the car was capped at 9.6kW, I would have gotten outlets installed instead ($, and also more flexible). Can I live with ~ 9.6 kW? Of course. But this is a Porsche! (e.g.: Can you or any other Macan Turbo owner live with a 4.9 second 0-60? Of course! But you don't!! In a way this is no different.)
3. I think Porsche, and by extension VW and by further extension all the legacy car companies, really need to get their EV acts together. This includes issues such as buggy software, parts availability, dealer training (sales and service), and understanding what the f- they are selling!!!
4. (Or else their lunch will be eaten)

Edit: *Or maybe I am misreading what you meant about fighting "this"?

 

[daveo4EV]

David,

All of a sudden you are a cynic*? I'll tell you why I personally would like to get to the bottom of this:

1. Like any respectable gearhead, I enjoy knowing what makes my car tick.
2. I like to get what I was promised. I had hardwired EVSE's installed in both my garages in anticipation of being able to charge at 11 kW in the Macan that I waited 9 months to receive. If I had known that the car was capped at 9.6kW, I would have gotten outlets installed instead ($, and also more flexible). Can I live with ~ 9.6 kW? Of course. But this is a Porsche! (e.g.: Can you or any other Macan Turbo owner live with a 4.9 second 0-60? Of course! But you don't!! In a way this is no different.)
3. I think Porsche, and by extension VW and by further extension all the legacy car companies, really need to get their EV acts together. This includes issues such as buggy software, parts availability, dealer training (sales and service), and understanding what the f- they are selling!!!
4. (Or else their lunch will be eaten)

Edit: *Or maybe I am misreading what you meant about fighting "this"?

I"m going to fight it - and start with service report/investigation - but this is such a confusing Topic I sincerely doubt anyone in Porsche North America "Knows" what this is supposed to be…

we'll see where this goes…

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